Punished by the game for being a Dragoon. (Magic defense and 2.4)

[Zankes]

Everyone who thinks that the DRG had Blood For Blood has obviously never been in T11 or they have never played with a DRG team mate in T11.

[Ryel]

I wish it were that simple, but unfortunately a WHM's Protect is far better htan a SCH's due to the 20% Mag Def boost, which would have knocked down the damage the DRG took significantly. Add the stronger Stoneskin in, and unfortunately you need a WHM or that DRG will not be surviving Final Coil. Sadly as we've all learned, we need BOTH kinds of tank and healer classes in any raid party for the increased damage mitigation tools, and I don't think that will be changing in the near future.

That isn't an acceptable reason balance-wise, and it very much IS that simple.

You say that the game requires us to use BOTH healers and BOTH tanks, yet you forget that 3.0 is adding another healer and tank to the equation, the question then becomes:

What happens when there are 3 available healers?

If only 1 out of 3 Healers can provide a level of Magic Defense that enables Dragoon to survive in endgame content this becomes a problem if Dragoons are ONLY viable in parties with that specific healer. It would be much easier on the playerbase as a whole to simply not worry about it and pick one of the other DPS that are not only outperforming Dragoon damage wise but also offering superior raid utility, and now in addition superior survivability unless a specific composition is met.

A job has to be able to perform equally on it's own merits to be considered viable, having to cater your composition around the job for inferior results only ends up with players choosing something more flexible to run with.

[RyuDragnier]

That isn't an acceptable reason balance-wise, and it very much IS that simple.

You say that the game requires us to use BOTH healers and BOTH tanks, yet you forget that 3.0 is adding another healer and tank to the equation, the question then becomes:

What happens when there are 3 available healers?

If only 1 out of 3 Healers can provide a level of Magic Defense that enables Dragoon to survive in endgame content this becomes a problem if Dragoons are ONLY viable in parties with that specific healer. It would be much easier on the playerbase as a whole to simply not worry about it and pick one of the other DPS that are not only outperforming Dragoon damage wise but also offering superior raid utility, and now in addition superior survivability unless a specific composition is met.

A job has to be able to perform equally on it's own merits to be considered viable, having to cater your composition around the job for inferior results only ends up with players choosing something more flexible to run with.

Which is why one of the things I agree with is that DRG needs a Mag Def boost, at least to other melee DPS standards. That alone fixes the problem. But right now, the ONLY time the Mag Def problem is coming into play right now is with double SCH. Until they buff DRG mag def though, you have to use WHM for their Protect instead of double SCH, I don't know how else to break that to you, because they did say buffs were coming. Wait for them sir, wait for them.

[Ryel]

Which is why one of the things I agree with is that DRG needs a Mag Def boost, at least to other melee DPS standards. That alone fixes the problem. But right now, the ONLY time the Mag Def problem is coming into play right now is with double SCH. Until they buff DRG mag def though, you have to use WHM for their Protect instead of double SCH, I don't know how else to break that to you, because they did say buffs were coming. Wait for them sir, wait for them.

And it's fine that they are being adjusted, i agree completely with this.

The point i was trying to get across was more to the comments being made that the problem is that the party didn't have a White Mage as opposed to recognizing that there is an issue (one hopefully being fixed with the upcoming adjustments) of every DPS except Dragoon being viable in a 2 Scholar party in fights with heavy Magic Damage, and like i said i agree with your last comment addressing this.

Honestly as long as the 2,2,4 Composition is met (for current endgame) it really shouldn't matter what DPS you take in (barring the LB bar nerf which is fine) the fact that Dragoon needs 2, WHM, 1, 4 is an issue we shouldn't be responding to with "Welp, sadly you should have taken a White Mage" but rather "Wow, maybe something is wrong here"

[HulveinBlitz]

I just found it funny he had to prove the DRG didn't use BFB. No good Dragoon is going to pop BFB before that aoe, and risk dying (especially since we're aware we have such terrible mdef as it is).

[Atomnium]

Thanks for your feedbacks guys, on a side note Ryel, I added one of your replies to the OP thread.

[Hopecord]

In my opinion SE should makes DRG have mag-def at the same level as their Phy-def. And for the PvP they can easily add the magic vulnerability for DRG sense they added that feature in 2.4

[Kyros]

It is VERY noticeable in FCoB. The thing is that it seems SE balances Physical attacks around healers, so an unavoidable mechanic needs to be at least survivable by mages who have the least Physical defense. However, the team balances Magic attacks around other DPS's, so they only need be survivable by MNK/NIN/BRD, leaving DRG in the cold.

It's got to the point where we have to take extra precautions to let our DRG live. We crafted him some i90 VIT-melded accesories (Comlpetly uneeded by the other DPS classes, and further impairs his DPS), we have the BLM use Apocatastasis on him for any big hit, and he is perma-stoneskin'd for T10 in case he gets Prey (Since Adlo alone won't save him). We don't take this precautions with anyone else, unless they are weakened.

To me, it makes no sense that a class with positionals, closest to the danger and wearing a heavier suit of armor than everyone else takes more damage. Specially considering DRG shared a lot of TANK items at lower levels. If anything, their magic def should at least equal MNK/NIN/BRD.

[Roris]

Some people would rather always blame the players first than admit their favorite game has a glaring fault. Yoshida himself said he designed the game around flexibility and that he wanted to avoid both class stacking and class exclusion, yet DRG still gets the shaft. Just imagine when Final Coil gets its lockout removed, which could happen as soon as 2.45 like it was hinted at with a system to allow FC mates to help each other, and a proper lockout removal and addition to the DF once Heavensward hits.

FCOB obsoletion by 3.0, nerfs and Echo buffs aside, even today it should allow a setup with 2 SCH and a DRG or two without major issues or having to take more care of a certain class than the rest, especially when their extra weakness doesn't bring an advantage compared to the other classes that don't need that extra protection.

[ChaozK]

SE really needs to stop being scared of buffing DRGs mdef. They know about the problem for multiple patches now but still havent done anything. Phy def is so irrelevant that i seriously doubt anyone would give a shit if DRGs mdef was a bit higher.

For all i care nerf phy def and hp if its what it costs to bring their mag def on par.