Extend Classes into full Jobs?

[Malevicton]

Let's SE determine what is and isn't a waste of their time.

Sounds good. They think THF is a waste of time. That was easy.

[RiceisNice]

...

They can do something such as adding in a polarizing level 30 skill upon reaching Ranger as a job change. Something akin to defiance; you'd go into a stationary mode for increased damage output or lowered cooldown/TP usage. You forego mobility and songs to enhance direct damage and different abilities oriented to it, such as a piercing resistance debuff (which would be more effective on ranger since they have stronger and more direct hits).

That's just an example though, I can't say I'm familiar with the FF series to know what a ranger is supposed to represent, and I'm having a hard time coming up with what a thief can do that's different from ninja while still having their identity as a separate job. But I'm extremely open to the idea of a ranged physical dps that rewards higher damage output for minimizing their movement when possible.

[Exstal]

Let's SE determine what is and isn't a waste of their time.

It's not up to SE. It's a matter of redundancy.

The game isn't only about "functionality". A NIN isn't a ROG and a ROG isn't a NIN.

If they do extend classes into full Jobs, what makes you think they won't add Job specific abilities to "differentiate" the 2 jobs?

When 95% of your base class is using the exact same skills and combos, the only way to make them different is to have a different role for the second job. So unless you want Thief healer/tank for Rogue, probably not going to happen.

Also, again, so what if they are similar mechanics-wise?

Redundancy.

If you really want to "not waste time", might as well just have "fighter", "thief", "priest" and "wizard", then call it a day.

A wonderful strawman.

[Bishop81]

It's not up to SE. It's a matter of redundancy.

My point is, so what if there is redundancy?

How is that harmful to the game? I have asked this many times, but no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

[Bishop81]

When 95% of your base class is using the exact same skills and combos, the only way to make them different is to have a different role for the second job. So unless you want Thief healer/tank for Rogue, probably not going to happen.

By your logic, adding Jobs at all was redundant. They share almost all of the abilities of their base class[1]. SE had to add extra abilities and a stat boost to differentiate them.

Thus I don't see how extending Classes into full Jobs by adding extra abilities that other Jobs won't get and a stat boost is any different.

It will be like, you play an ACN to 30, at which point you can,

• continue with ACN as a Job and get your own unique set of abilities and the stat boost or
• you can pick SMN or SCH with their own unique abilities and the stat boosts.

[1] They could have just added Flare to THM and called it a day.

[Exstal]

My point is, so what if there is redundancy?

How is that harmful to the game? I have asked this many times, but no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

It's harmful because it's an inefficient allocation of developer time. They could make ROGv2, GLAv2, or whatever. But what does that accomplish? You're not creating a whole new feel of class. You're creating GLA with different skills to PLD. That's is not a good investment of time when you can creat DRK from a different class which will play vastly different from GLA (which is what they are doing)

By your logic, adding Jobs at all was redundant. They share almost all of the abilities of their base class[1]. SE had to add extra abilities and a stat boost to differentiate them.

Thus I don't see how extending Classes into full Jobs by adding extra abilities that other Jobs won't get and a stat boost is any different.

It will be like, you play an ACN to 30, at which point you can,

• continue with ACN as a Job and get your own unique set of abilities and the stat boost or
• you can pick SMN or SCH with their own unique abilities and the stat boosts.

[1] They could have just added Flare to THM and called it a day.

You're very good at misunderstanding the logic. I'll make it as simple as possible.

Class A has 3 abilities called 1, 2, and 3.
Ability 1 flows into ability 2 which flows into ability 3.
It branches in Job A.
Job A adds 2 abilities E and F.
Class A's rotation is this; 1-2-3-1-2-3 (repeat)
Job A's rotation is this: 1-2-3-E-1-2-3-F (repeat)

You want to add job B. Same role as job A.
Job B adds 2 abilities G and H
Job B's rotation is this: 1-2-3-G-H-1-2-3 (repeat)

This is how ARR works right now. Jobs just give some kind of iconic look to the classes but in the end it's just <class> with some new flashy moves. It's easily demonstrated by how DPS SCH and SMN play (hint: it's almost the exact same).

Jobs were added because Hiromichi Tanaka, original director of FFXIV, was going to just have classes but then when Naoki Yoshida took over they were added ontop of the classes. It was to give people the "Final Fantasy" feel by having jobs fans of the series would recognize.

[Craiger]

Making Classes viable is just an annoying balancing issue, and frankly, the worst idea ever... Everyone wants unique jobs, so why would you want people to play bland classes with abilities from all different classes? Bard is just an Archer with some songs, but that's exactly what a Bard is supposed to be... If you want more Bard like abilities, just wait for the Expansion, cause I'm sure the extra 10 levels will bring new abilities for all jobs.

SMN and SCH will start to take different paths with the expansion too probably, and if they ever add new jobs based on classes that already have a job, I'm sure they are changing things around to not make them the same... I say "ever", cause DRK isn't based on a class (might be based on jobs though), and the gun job is most probably based on Musketeer (a new class at least).

* I expect BRD to get more songs or something that makes them more than just an Archer with 3 songs(that you use in combat)
* I expect SMN and SCH to get more abilities that make them stand apart from each-other

You have to remember that FFXIV is a remake, and a lot of features are still left in the game from 1.0, which Yoshi-P wouldn't have had if he made the game from scratch... So what we see with classes and jobs etc, doesn't have to be a way he wants to continue with... in the same way at least... And we are already seeing some change with DRK, just have to see how different that actually will be. I hope it's not just an advanced job based on PLD and War or something...

[Akiza]

The problem with the Class system is they are simply low level versions of the Job System.
Lancer- is a low level Dragon
Pugilist- is a low level Monk
Rouge- is a low level Ninja
Archer- is a low level Bard
Thaumaturge- is a low level Black Mage
Arcanist- is low level Scholar that has three different colored carbuncle's that occasionally likes to dress up as a Summoner
Conjurer- is a low level White Mage
Marauder- is a low level Warrior
Gladiator- is a low level Paladin
SE can replace every class with Jobs. Give the Summoner it's own specialized Job apart from the Arcanist and add a Ranger and Bard.

[Noelzzz]

The problem with the Class system is they are simply low level versions of the Job System.
Lancer- is a low level Dragon
Pugilist- is a low level Monk
Rouge- is a low level Ninja
Archer- is a low level Bard
Thaumaturge- is a low level Black Mage
Arcanist- is low level Scholar that has three different colored carbuncle's that occasionally likes to dress up as a Summoner
Conjurer- is a low level White Mage
Marauder- is a low level Warrior
Gladiator- is a low level Paladin
SE can replace every class with Jobs. Give the Summoner it's own specialized Job apart from the Arcanist and add a Ranger and Bard.

This. We just need this

[Bishop81]

This is how ARR works right now. Jobs just give some kind of iconic look to the classes but in the end it's just <class> with some new flashy moves. It's easily demonstrated by how DPS SCH and SMN play (hint: it's almost the exact same).

Jobs were added because Hiromichi Tanaka, original director of FFXIV, was going to just have classes but then when Naoki Yoshida took over they were added ontop of the classes. It was to give people the "Final Fantasy" feel by having jobs fans of the series would recognize.

Oh!!! It's now about "iconic look" and "'Final Fantasy' feel"!

And all this time I thought you only cared about "function", "redundancy" and " inefficient allocation of developer time". /rolleyes