Could have SE unknowing set FFXIV to fail....

[Prototype909]

Its not common knowledge, just blind speculation by a small % of the playerbase with no basis in reality. The fact is no job is excluded at endgame. I've personally never seen a good DRG be excluded from a group. Maybe a PUG, but a PUG hardly counts. No FC worth its salt excludes jobs. They only care about skills.

Meanwhile none of the first clear Final Coil groups used Dragoons, I just all their Dragoon players were just that bad or didn't exist before patch 2.4.

[Niwashi]

The only difference between lotro and FF meta was that they had a support class with healing capabilities in captain. It had the exact same trinity that exists in XIV Tank/Healer/DPS.

No. LotRO uses a four role system with Tank/Healer/DPS/Support, and the game is structured so that the Support role is every bit as vital as the other three. (In fact, you ideally want two Support classes in a group, one focusing on buffs and another on debuffs/crowd control, so it could be thought of as five roles, though two of them fall under the category the game just calls "Support".)

Each class there also has a more versatile set of abilities, so it will be really good at one of those four roles and passable for simple or intermediate content in a second role. The ability to take on a secondary role is replaced here in this game with the ability to simply switch to a different class or job when you want to play a different role (something you can't do in LotRO except by switching characters completely, as each character can have only one class).

There isn't really a replacement here in FFXIV, however, for the missing Support role that LotRO uses. Instead, SE just tacked a few random support abilities onto classes that need to be primarily filling one of the other three roles. I see that as the biggest weakness in FFXIV's battle system, as it eliminates the most dynamic of the parts we could play.

[Schizm]

I just wonder if SE would do a seasonal event, like BYOP (Bring your own party) or "Show me some Class", and have events that is strict one class driven but balanced to what the jobs are. An example would be, survival modes, clear rounds of mobs but everyone is the same job. People might learn seeing how other people play the same job while attacking mobs or stationary targets, after a few rounds then the mobs would attack.

Either that, would SE create content to adjust to the party make up, IF you have a SMN then mobs would have pets also or BLM then mobs would AoE magic. That would create a counter effect that patterns would develop but everyone would go in blind with DF and see what comes out. If it's just for bonus seals and not held to something that forced players to complete to continue the story line, some people might take to it. Hell, if people take PvP seriously, maybe the survival mode could fit in.

[Welsper59]

I just wonder if SE would do a seasonal event, like BYOP (Bring your own party) or "Show me some Class", and have events that is strict one class driven but balanced to what the jobs are. An example would be, survival modes, clear rounds of mobs but everyone is the same job. People might learn seeing how other people play the same job while attacking mobs or stationary targets, after a few rounds then the mobs would attack.

Either that, would SE create content to adjust to the party make up, IF you have a SMN then mobs would have pets also or BLM then mobs would AoE magic. That would create a counter effect that patterns would develop but everyone would go in blind with DF and see what comes out. If it's just for bonus seals and not held to something that forced players to complete to continue the story line, some people might take to it. Hell, if people take PvP seriously, maybe the survival mode could fit in.

That's a bit too much work. A good idea in theory or on paper, but either an absolute nightmare to get working properly or impossible to implement. Even if it were to happen, there are two prevalent concerns. That being that it simply means that people would exclusively do speed runs with the ideal group set up only (e.g. no BLMs invited to avoid AoE wipes or SMN to save on time and avoid killing pets) and refuse to partake in other jobs that prove detrimental to progress. Likewise, with a BYOP, it's essentially going to always be an "easiest" and "fastest" approach to it. Going all healers, for example, will never happen if it's possible to defeat content with heavy DPS only. This mentality, which is the only way things generally play out, completely defeats the purpose of having multiple jobs and roles.

In regards to the trinity setup though, the players are the ones who work with what they have to do that which wasn't intended (solo). FFXI was NOT solo friendly and was never intended to be that way, at least not in a way that was worth doing, until after WotG. The only way it became a soloable game was due to players doing things that were unintended. Running as BLM/NIN to survive pet exp kills (which wasn't much of an option until new zones appeared that had more BST job mobs).

In FFXIV, we could technically do this sort of thing now, the problem being the restriction we have with it being mandatory to use DF and queue. I have personally soloed several low lvl dungeons as SCH, for example, after asking some FC members to queue with me and drop after. There's video of low-man t5, primals, all/mostly SMN parties, etc. We can do these things that break the mold now, but SE makes it difficult (be it for legit reasons or not) to do so.

Speaking as someone who loves to solo or under-man content that was not intended to be done that way, the content design MUST be without considering the possibility to solo. That's not to say they have to actively prevent it, but rather that it's just not a concern. If things are designed to be soloed, we get brainless content (e.g. daily quests). This defeats the purpose of soloing such content, as part of the reason we do it is for the e-peen and bragging rights... not to mention the clear challenge and being able to bypass the people we hate encountering.

[Fayto]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2574974

Yes.

On Balmung, no Dragoon has been excluded yet and is still a pretty popular Job. FCs on Balmung value skilled players more.

[Schizm]

This is definitely one aspect I miss about XI. The challenge of taking on content not designed to be handled by one individual - was quite the thrill.

I wish SE would give us a chance to see this game mechanics in FFXI world.

Say like a seasonal event, give us FFXI dunes, level sync it to proper level and see what happens.

The days of running for the zones, healers bail first, tanks last.
If you got mobbed, you were dead. One goblin was a fight, a second would destroy the party.

The only way I can explain it to someone that has played FFXIV and not FFXI, imagine doing primals where you could aggro another primal in the middle of the fight. Like Titan HM? Imagine if two or more titans could just random aggro the party.

I also liked FFXI for trying weird stuff, in the end I was doing SAM/DNC or RDM/SCH. It was even more funny to me when I thought a job/subjob would be awesome and just got beat down. Even at those fails I would laugh at.

[Krr]

We wouldn't have discovered that Dragoons literally can't survive partywide magic attacks in T13+ without including them in our parties.

Jussayin'.

[Ghishlain]

I also liked FFXI for trying weird stuff, in the end I was doing SAM/DNC or RDM/SCH. It was even more funny to me when I thought a job/subjob would be awesome and just got beat down. Even at those fails I would laugh at.

FFXI is really good for that. I only had WHM leveled in it but I tried a whole bunch of off-the-wall things with WHM like /BLU for massive defenseness, /SAM for staff-fun, /PLD just for Fenrir because of that stupid Dispel, /WAR for random Fencer TP bonus while using Dagan + Gambanteinn, I was getting /MNK leveled until they nerfed Counterstance, lol. Ah well. Fun times, fun times.

[SarcasmMisser]

Misinformation? You yourself just ignored what they wrote. This is why I have a good feeling you don't do end-game, because it's become common knowledge FCs are excluding DRGs for the higher coils, especially the final 2.

You should stick to topics you are good at like white knighting everything to do with XI. You're very good at jumping in every thread hopelessly indignant that people dare not like your favourite video game ever but not so much at commenting on end game balance. There are DRGs who are likely further in final coil than you, there isn't many because not many people at that level play DRG and in any case its not so much the presence of a DRG that is a real handicap in these groups but when they are there in absence of a monk on t13. The other turns that you may or may not have passed are too much of a joke for it to matter.

[Sapphic]

This will always be a problem in theme park mmo's that follow a 'trinity'

When your game revolves around raiding and gear stats of course there will be optimal rotations and classes people want. FFXI was a different breed because it didn't follow the same old song and dance most games have been following since the release of WoW, which is what made FFXI such an amazing and unique MMO.

FFXI was different, yes. In that players demanded optimal jobs with the correct FOTM sub jobs, optimal abilites and optimal gear with optimal gear for gear swaps,

FFXI was a lot more limiting on what you could do due to the players bias to a limited number of jobs. Then again, balance was a joke between jobs in FFXI.

If raid leader orders you to switch jobs or GTFO. Then are they really the kind of people you want to spend time with to make threats like that?