Could have SE unknowing set FFXIV to fail....

[Welsper59]

FFXI was different, yes. In that players demanded optimal jobs with the correct FOTM sub jobs, optimal abilites and optimal gear with optimal gear for gear swaps,

FFXI was a lot more limiting on what you could do due to the players bias to a limited number of jobs. Then again, balance was a joke between jobs in FFXI.

If raid leader orders you to switch jobs or GTFO. Then are they really the kind of people you want to spend time with to make threats like that?

You just sorta described everything that involves setting up and preparation. Video games, sports, jobs, projects, school, etc. There's practically no difference in how the players acted in FFXI, compared to how people in general act.

I will agree that the balance was ridiculous in FFXI. I strongly disagree with the limitations though, even when imposed by fellow players. There were optimal setups, like anything else in life, but most LSs did not refuse participating in content just because every single player wasn't a BLM, MNK, or whatever was FOTM. What strongly proves that it was not a limiting game was due to the fact that you were free to do as you pleased. For example, you could attempt to solo or underman content without being restricted or limited in doing so. It was possible to utilize your class and your personal player skills in ways that you may not even realize possible. It was an open world dictated primarily by the players, rather than the devs... it was "free".

[XNihili]

You just sorta described everything that involves setting up and preparation. Video games, sports, jobs, projects, school, etc. There's practically no difference in how the players acted in FFXI, compared to how people in general act.

I will agree that the balance was ridiculous in FFXI. I strongly disagree with the limitations though, even when imposed by fellow players. There were optimal setups, like anything else in life, but most LSs did not refuse participating in content just because every single player wasn't a BLM, MNK, or whatever was FOTM. What strongly proves that it was not a limiting game was due to the fact that you were free to do as you pleased. For example, you could attempt to solo or underman content without being restricted or limited in doing so. It was possible to utilize your class and your personal player skills in ways that you may not even realize possible. It was an open world dictated primarily by the players, rather than the devs... it was "free".

When you have to farm for a full week for pop items, have to buy reraise 2 necklace, super duper expensive food and cap XP for the umpth times because you die too much last time, and if you are the leader you have to coordinate a bunch of 32+ people (and kill dramas before it happens), you don't want to waste one night for nothing. You really don't want that.
It's why FFXI endgames LS are very cranky.

[Lord_Zlatan]

and there are even more viable options than that. I think what most of the player base is asking for is even a fraction of what we were able to do "outside the box" in FFXI

[XNihili]

and there are even more viable options than that. I think what most of the player base is asking for is even a fraction of what we were able to do "outside the box" in FFXI

There's not real need of "outside of the box" thinking in the way the game is played.
And if you want to specialize your job into healer/tank/dps as the need arise it will :
- confuse the Duty/Party Finder with PLD and WAR DPS unless a massive change.
- it will change nothing as people playing DPS won't play tank even if their job can specialize in tanking.
- you'll need to lot any and every equipments in the off chance that you may need to change role.
And to be honest, the "outside of the box" thinking is mostly laughed at in FFXI unless you manage some great achievement (and SE doesn't decide to nerf it like the BRD/NIN). Who remember the infamous WHM/THF ?

[Yukiko]

Well... FFXIV isnt a D&D game... thats for certain!
What do you expect?

[Schizm]

I just wonder if SE would do a seasonal event, like BYOP (Bring your own party) or "Show me some Class", and have events that is strict one class driven but balanced to what the jobs are. An example would be, survival modes, clear rounds of mobs but everyone is the same job. People might learn seeing how other people play the same job while attacking mobs or stationary targets, after a few rounds then the mobs would attack.

Either that, would SE create content to adjust to the party make up, IF you have a SMN then mobs would have pets also or BLM then mobs would AoE magic. That would create a counter effect that patterns would develop but everyone would go in blind with DF and see what comes out. If it's just for bonus seals and not held to something that forced players to complete to continue the story line, some people might take to it. Hell, if people take PvP seriously, maybe the survival mode could fit in.

[Welsper59]

I just wonder if SE would do a seasonal event, like BYOP (Bring your own party) or "Show me some Class", and have events that is strict one class driven but balanced to what the jobs are. An example would be, survival modes, clear rounds of mobs but everyone is the same job. People might learn seeing how other people play the same job while attacking mobs or stationary targets, after a few rounds then the mobs would attack.

Either that, would SE create content to adjust to the party make up, IF you have a SMN then mobs would have pets also or BLM then mobs would AoE magic. That would create a counter effect that patterns would develop but everyone would go in blind with DF and see what comes out. If it's just for bonus seals and not held to something that forced players to complete to continue the story line, some people might take to it. Hell, if people take PvP seriously, maybe the survival mode could fit in.

That's a bit too much work. A good idea in theory or on paper, but either an absolute nightmare to get working properly or impossible to implement. Even if it were to happen, there are two prevalent concerns. That being that it simply means that people would exclusively do speed runs with the ideal group set up only (e.g. no BLMs invited to avoid AoE wipes or SMN to save on time and avoid killing pets) and refuse to partake in other jobs that prove detrimental to progress. Likewise, with a BYOP, it's essentially going to always be an "easiest" and "fastest" approach to it. Going all healers, for example, will never happen if it's possible to defeat content with heavy DPS only. This mentality, which is the only way things generally play out, completely defeats the purpose of having multiple jobs and roles.

In regards to the trinity setup though, the players are the ones who work with what they have to do that which wasn't intended (solo). FFXI was NOT solo friendly and was never intended to be that way, at least not in a way that was worth doing, until after WotG. The only way it became a soloable game was due to players doing things that were unintended. Running as BLM/NIN to survive pet exp kills (which wasn't much of an option until new zones appeared that had more BST job mobs).

In FFXIV, we could technically do this sort of thing now, the problem being the restriction we have with it being mandatory to use DF and queue. I have personally soloed several low lvl dungeons as SCH, for example, after asking some FC members to queue with me and drop after. There's video of low-man t5, primals, all/mostly SMN parties, etc. We can do these things that break the mold now, but SE makes it difficult (be it for legit reasons or not) to do so.

Speaking as someone who loves to solo or under-man content that was not intended to be done that way, the content design MUST be without considering the possibility to solo. That's not to say they have to actively prevent it, but rather that it's just not a concern. If things are designed to be soloed, we get brainless content (e.g. daily quests). This defeats the purpose of soloing such content, as part of the reason we do it is for the e-peen and bragging rights... not to mention the clear challenge and being able to bypass the people we hate encountering.

[Kyoskai]

Holy god that thread title.
Probably not though.

[Synestr]

Farm groups for POP items on Mon/Tues depending how well they go. Dynamis on Wednesdays. Sky on Thursday. Sea and HNMs on Friday. That is what I remeber of XI. I left before they raised the cap from 75. Jobs I HAD to use were PLD, DNC and SAM. It wasn't fun after a while.