When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Tiggy]

MeiUshu, this IS how you get parties and get this stuff done. So it is the right advice, to completely tell me that I'm in no way helping is a bit stand offish don't you think? We could have a discussion about how to make that work better, but instead you just put me down as not helping. Maybe you need to open your mind a bit more.

If I were to have a conversation with you about it without you just outright assuming I'm being unhelpful I might say to you that you should grab a few friends before making the party. Put it up on PF with 2-3 or more of your friends. People are less inclined to help when it's 1 person out of 8 sitting in PF. When the group is already half formed they are bit more willing to hop in, or you could alternatively make friends that can fill a party with you. Do you not have 7 friends that could help? If you do at least some of them must have the win by now and should be able to help. Are you really using your social network to it's fullest?

See how hard that would have been to not be negative at me and instead have a real conversation? Not very hard at all. Your post is a great example of how advice can be given to someone but it's then thrown back in their face regardless if it's the correct answer or not. Instead of putting me down ask how you could improve your odds. Further the conversation. Don't just bar-none throw it back at me. It makes me wonder why you haven't beaten T5 yet, and if this is the attitude you bring to advice threads then I have to wonder what you bring to a party when someone tries to give you advice.

[Lord_Zlatan]

See how hard that would have been to not be negative at me and instead have a real conversation? Not very hard at all. Your post is a great example of how advice can be given to someone but it's then thrown back in their face regardless if it's the correct answer or not. Instead of putting me down ask how you could improve your odds. Further the conversation. Don't just bar-none throw it back at me. It makes me wonder why you haven't beaten T5 yet, and if this is the attitude you bring to advice threads then I have to wonder what you bring to a party when someone tries to give you advice
.

This happens a lot. People think you are "talking down" to them when you are basically telling them something they don't want to hear or have heard before but haven't acted on. Im not saying thats true in all cases but it is most of the time.

All of the suggestions you made were completely constructive and actually work when enacted. I myself have done them to great affect. Im not a hardcore raider or in a static. All of my clears have come from PF, DF (most), and Getting help from FC. The third one is something I feel like a lot of people don't do enough of. You need to get yourself into a good FC that clears content.

People are going to tell me that "I'm being loyal to my friends, I can't leave" or "You treat people like a commodity to be used and abused, how dare you!". My response is, good for you if thats what you think. You need to prioritize your goals. If clearing T5 is more important than keeping friends, then you need to move on OR create an LS or something that keeps in touch with friends or that includes people u want to clear with.

The options are there, the suggestions have been made. The only thing left to do is to execute them.

[XoanGrahm]

See, I'm a new player. I've only been in game about 2 months. I have worked hard to try and get up to speed. I haven't cleared T5 but I have tired it a several times in DF and its already to the point where when I go in and there are new people I ask if they at least watched a video. More often than not they say no. These are, compairitively, hard core raids. Why would you step into that with no knowledge what so ever? Thats just plain lazy, I would never step into content like that when its so easy to at least find a video to watch. They are wasting their time, and the time of 7 other people because they can't be bothered to watch a 10 minute video?

[Priya]

Don't forget the fault that lies on SE. Who the hell leaves one shot mechanics in two tier old content and still requires a clear? The echo buff is not the only "nerf" those encounters need. IMO, one shots should be taken out of old content completely, but if they want to leave them in, then only the prievious tier (6-9) should keep it. Two tiers back (1-5) should definitely not have them. It's dead content to anyone who cleared when it was current.

Inb4 "Lol, I don't want those baddies in my raids and I had to do it pre-nerf." If they weren't in your groups while the last tier was current, they won't be in this tier, either. Leave them alone and let them have old content. It doesn't hurt anyone's prestige who cleared it when it was current.

Also, inb4 "no, I want my content to be hard whenever I get to it!" Then clear it while it's current. I get it, time constraints suck, but don't selfishly cry to bar everyone else for months just because of your unfortunate game time.

[Tiggy]

Who the hell leaves one shot mechanics in two tier old content and still requires a clear?

People who know that all the content that follows is harder and that removing those mechanics wouldn't really anyone in a meaningful way. You'd only be removing a learning tool to help people practice simple mechanics in preparation for the crazier ones to come. Just because it's old does not mean it has no purpose. If you can't do the simple mechanics in T5 you are in for a world of hurt in the second coil, and instead of T5 needs nerfed threads we'll instead be having the same conversation about the "old content" of T6 and T7. It doesn't really change anything but the context of the conversation. People who struggle with T5 will continue to struggle with T6 and beyond.

[treuhavik]

The problem is that the devs keep making older content "accessible", which basically means to remove all pre-reqs and throw it in the DF. So, of course you're going to get people in Turn 5 at the minimum ilevel who haven't even seen a video.

Solution: LEAVE THE DAMN BLOCKS IN PLACE! If you want to clear BCoB, you first have to beat Titan (Hard), obtain your relic, progress through 1-4, just like everyone else did. You actually have to learn the mechanics of each boss, 'cause (SURPRISE!) you'll be seeing a lot more of those very same mechanics literally EVERYWHERE else. What, you can't beat Shiva (Ex)? Didn't you beat Tita... Oh, right, they removed that pre-requisite.

[SpookyGhost]

What, you can't beat Shiva (Ex)? Didn't you beat Tita... Oh, right, they removed that pre-requisite.

TBF, I think Ramuh/Levi/Mog EX are all good checks for whether someone is competent enough to clear Shiva EX. The block for Coil, I think, is still there where it counts - you can't get to Coil2 without beating Turn 5. I do, however, agree that progressing through Titan -> Relic -> 1-4 helped you learn how the mechanics of the game worked and pretty much guaranteed that anyone who got to T5 knew what they were doing. 2 people in my Coil2 raid group had never beaten T5 (as they were relatively new to the game), so we took them through every turn, one by one, and taught them how to do them. This made them much better players than if we had just carried them through T5. So, I agree that the progression was a good thing, but I think the wall of T5 can still be a tricky one to climb for most.

[Ophie-Mio]

And it's not fair at all to say that all competent players are in raiding statics/FCs. I run a casual FC and I don't belong to any static.

I've cleared everything up to T9 with me currently working on it. I don't consider my progress to be a fluke nor did I do anything but spend time on the content and learn it until I could do it in my sleep. A friend instructed me on T1-4 when I was brand new to it but T5+ was a video experience and just plain doing it over and over again.

I was in one hopeful static but it never worked out. People were either crappy or just couldn't manage themselves on their classes.

Funnily enough, the people who I see farming Coils are usually the same people. The content was made more accessible and yet I still see the same people in these groups.

So honestly, it's not hard. You just need ONE player out of 8 to give you a run down. I did it for my co-healer in T4. I just explained everything as we went. It only takes one person. On T6+, I don't have time to baby a player unless it's a learning group.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Solution: LEAVE THE DAMN BLOCKS IN PLACE! If you want to clear BCoB, you first have to beat Titan (Hard), obtain your relic, progress through 1-4, just like everyone else did. You actually have to learn the mechanics of each boss, 'cause (SURPRISE!) you'll be seeing a lot more of those very same mechanics literally EVERYWHERE else. What, you can't beat Shiva (Ex)? Didn't you beat Tita... Oh, right, they removed that pre-requisite.

At first, when I was behind on Coil and Primals ( still am in most cases ) I was all happy about removing gates like Ifrit Ex and and such. Now, I see that it really did have a purpose. I am no elite player or elitist of any kind but some players are just ridiculously bad. They do not need to have access to everything. They need to earn their spot. They have a normal/HM for most stuff anyway so people always get to see it.

[Kazumac]

I'm glad there's some gating a least... Coil is the one part of the game that is difficult and not for everyone. You have a 100 ft brick wall to climb over at T5. If that was removed... You'd just slam into the 200 ft wall of second coil even harder.

I know this as my extremely super casual FC that focuses on community and helping new players has helped a member or two through T5 to get their clear... And now they still have to go back and practice that content to improve their skills before they are ready for second coil...

All that was gained is that they got to see the cutscenes a couple weeks quicker (which can be seen on YouTube) but entry to the next content is still gated by their experience level.