When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[treuhavik]

The problem is that the devs keep making older content "accessible", which basically means to remove all pre-reqs and throw it in the DF. So, of course you're going to get people in Turn 5 at the minimum ilevel who haven't even seen a video.

Solution: LEAVE THE DAMN BLOCKS IN PLACE! If you want to clear BCoB, you first have to beat Titan (Hard), obtain your relic, progress through 1-4, just like everyone else did. You actually have to learn the mechanics of each boss, 'cause (SURPRISE!) you'll be seeing a lot more of those very same mechanics literally EVERYWHERE else. What, you can't beat Shiva (Ex)? Didn't you beat Tita... Oh, right, they removed that pre-requisite.

[SpookyGhost]

What, you can't beat Shiva (Ex)? Didn't you beat Tita... Oh, right, they removed that pre-requisite.

TBF, I think Ramuh/Levi/Mog EX are all good checks for whether someone is competent enough to clear Shiva EX. The block for Coil, I think, is still there where it counts - you can't get to Coil2 without beating Turn 5. I do, however, agree that progressing through Titan -> Relic -> 1-4 helped you learn how the mechanics of the game worked and pretty much guaranteed that anyone who got to T5 knew what they were doing. 2 people in my Coil2 raid group had never beaten T5 (as they were relatively new to the game), so we took them through every turn, one by one, and taught them how to do them. This made them much better players than if we had just carried them through T5. So, I agree that the progression was a good thing, but I think the wall of T5 can still be a tricky one to climb for most.

[Ophie-Mio]

And it's not fair at all to say that all competent players are in raiding statics/FCs. I run a casual FC and I don't belong to any static.

I've cleared everything up to T9 with me currently working on it. I don't consider my progress to be a fluke nor did I do anything but spend time on the content and learn it until I could do it in my sleep. A friend instructed me on T1-4 when I was brand new to it but T5+ was a video experience and just plain doing it over and over again.

I was in one hopeful static but it never worked out. People were either crappy or just couldn't manage themselves on their classes.

Funnily enough, the people who I see farming Coils are usually the same people. The content was made more accessible and yet I still see the same people in these groups.

So honestly, it's not hard. You just need ONE player out of 8 to give you a run down. I did it for my co-healer in T4. I just explained everything as we went. It only takes one person. On T6+, I don't have time to baby a player unless it's a learning group.

[Kazumac]

I'm glad there's some gating a least... Coil is the one part of the game that is difficult and not for everyone. You have a 100 ft brick wall to climb over at T5. If that was removed... You'd just slam into the 200 ft wall of second coil even harder.

I know this as my extremely super casual FC that focuses on community and helping new players has helped a member or two through T5 to get their clear... And now they still have to go back and practice that content to improve their skills before they are ready for second coil...

All that was gained is that they got to see the cutscenes a couple weeks quicker (which can be seen on YouTube) but entry to the next content is still gated by their experience level.

[Kail]

All of the competent players are in full statics or raiding FCs. I'm on a freaking RP server for twelves' sake! There are no other competent players willing to do anything except farm Second Coil and learn Third Coil so they can then farm it.

I'm on Balmung. What hours do you play? If you play in the evenings (after) 10 CST, I'd be willing to help you get your T5 clear.

[Ophie-Mio]

I know this as my extremely super casual FC that focuses on community and helping new players has helped a member or two through T5 to get their clear... And now they still have to go back and practice that content to improve their skills before they are ready for second coil...

This btw. I hated T5 when I cleared it and hated it when friends asked me to farm it with them beyond their main jobs. Now I've been in it SO many times for friends/clear PF peeps.

I must have cleared it for at least 15 different people both in my FC and not. A few instances I outright carried. Most of these people DO NOT ADVANCE to T6 beyond one learning party. It's just too difficult for most.

The old content needs to remain the same and people need to put in the time.

[Maza]

I gave up dungeons at ToTo Rak because of the anger and hate spewed out (in general, not at me, I'm a cnj). After a day at work with REAL frustration then having to put up with mean, loudmouth jerks in a game I try to play to have fun and relax is absolutely ridiculous. Doing molten core with 39 other people (in the other game) seemed much more fun way back when : / I guess it's just the times with the "wanting it all now" and "gotta be first to the top" generation. I don't know and I wish I did. If it wasn't for crafting, gathering and exploring I wouldn't be playing.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

I gave up dungeons at ToTo Rak because of the anger and hate spewed out (in general, not at me, I'm a cnj). After a day at work with REAL frustration then having to put up with mean, loudmouth jerks in a game I try to play to have fun and relax is absolutely ridiculous. Doing molten core with 39 other people (in the other game) seemed much more fun way back when : / I guess it's just the times with the "wanting it all now" and "gotta be first to the top" generation. I don't know and I wish I did. If it wasn't for crafting, gathering and exploring I wouldn't be playing.

You just need to find a likeminded group of players to play with.
Endgame raiding is easily possible and indeed quite fun with the right people, even if you have a full time job. Personal experience.

[Jamillion]

My group loves new players, we soak up that newbie bonus with smiles on. Explaining a fight or two and maybe taking a little longer is worth it imo.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Solution: LEAVE THE DAMN BLOCKS IN PLACE! If you want to clear BCoB, you first have to beat Titan (Hard), obtain your relic, progress through 1-4, just like everyone else did. You actually have to learn the mechanics of each boss, 'cause (SURPRISE!) you'll be seeing a lot more of those very same mechanics literally EVERYWHERE else. What, you can't beat Shiva (Ex)? Didn't you beat Tita... Oh, right, they removed that pre-requisite.

At first, when I was behind on Coil and Primals ( still am in most cases ) I was all happy about removing gates like Ifrit Ex and and such. Now, I see that it really did have a purpose. I am no elite player or elitist of any kind but some players are just ridiculously bad. They do not need to have access to everything. They need to earn their spot. They have a normal/HM for most stuff anyway so people always get to see it.