When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Schizm]

There's been alot of imbalance of players, veterans and new comers mixing in events like Coils and sadly, lately it's been turning really ugly. The line in sand of helping others to now complain and leave events have become the normal that in my opinion is hurting the community, the party group and especially to players that may have not known any better take a verbal beating that wouldn't seem validated in any right.

I know this would seem to be a rant to bash anyone in particular but I feel that the regular/veteran players do events like ST/Coil to grind out seals and items and maybe feeling that being forced into this routine should be smoothe and when things go bad, they go bad which would make playing hectic. A new player that is excited into trying something new, sees opportunity but chances are they, themselves get emoitionally hurt or violated because blame is forced onto them.

But really now, when you can "abandon" an event or say it's OK to say, "It's Not OK?"

[Schizm]

What I am seeing, under geared players or inexperience players enter coil and do not know the routine or how to handle the battle situations. While CT and ST would help if people already had an idea on what to do in each fight, but really with Bahamut Coils, I think it's expected for people to know what is expected of your job and that "winging it" will not suffice in these events.

Don't know, maybe it's me, but is there anything to do in a politely manner to not discourage people and handle this properly? We need to help the players that need help without feeling like we are leading them along hand and foot, but should SE atleast give us options of forgetting the seal bonus and maybe just say I want DF for coils to be, minimal iLevel and have players that have repeated the event? By this point of making certain events easier to get seals, I don't feel that making people farm for seals repeatily and then mix up the parties like DF already does, any beneficial to individual players.

[HakuroDK]

There is indeed a certain lack of sympathy for players who don't run content on Day 1. If you don't know how to run something beyond Day 2, it seems like most people are apt to criticize you for being an idiot because they know how to run it and you don't.

Coil especially has been just one big, long, tiresome headache. I have never once cleared Turns 4 or 5. Not for lack of trying, mind. But it seems to me unless you are in a static or raiding FC and you have some form of audio comms, you are destined to fail Coil with a 99% probability. And yet a lot of people say it's the easiest thing in the world in such a way that it feels like they're implying it is my own fault for not having cleared T5 yet.

[TessaJalloh]

With the plethora of strategy videos out there, most players who want to do coil will at least watch the relevant one for the bosses, i must admit, the level of pressure for a new to coil player to just magically get it right is way too high though.
I live out of timezone from most of my FC, so i can't join them on coil runs, but going as a pickup, i really would need a little hand holding and have some things explained as we reach them. There is a LOT to remember, at the end of the day, experience beats research.

People should be more open to teaching people, rather than being pissed off that they lost their precious minutes of farm time.

[Schizm]

The ugly truth in all of this is that I am guilty of being frustrated, knew by examining the players and shortly after starting the run, every step was a crawling fight just to gain ground. Loss after loss and restarting, I would put a comment that maybe this isn't the best set up and we should abandon. Times, people bow out and already knew what everyone was thinking, just no one said it in party chat.

If the abandon vote doesn't kick everyone out of the event, then people just start leaving. Of course I left out all the profanity and shouting, maybe SE should impliment a wipe cap and a voting option to stay. It would seem more polite to say maybe someone else would work better, than looking like the "Captain Obvious of Doom" and bail.

[Aylis]

Sadly this will end up being the normal for the game and just shows why exactly not having properly tiered content, having end game just flat out open and easily accessed, and all players funneled into one group is a really bad idea in the end. More so when the game tries to shoehorn everyone into the end game under the pretense of "do it or be bored to death".Not to mention either the 100 foot tall vertical brick wall separating the easy mode dungeons and other content that can be done by anyone with a pulse from Coils and EX primal where players are pretty much required to be masters at their roles.

We can't fault the players for this at all, if something is open and accessed naturally players are going to want to try it. Said players are mixed in with those who have done it before and are geared for it and we have the flak we have now because of it. The idea of mixing the super experienced with the new players together in a fight where things are very tight mechanic wise is a deffo recipe for disaster when the content in question was more or less made for experienced teams and statics to begin with.

The idea of being able to pick minimal item level and clear experience just seems to sound like a bandaid covering a bigger issue. Maybe a hurdle to climb before tackling that 100 foot brick wall would be better? Something more difficult then talking to an NPC and taking a small walk and suddenly the player is Coils flagged. Some sorta attunment quest to at least show to the player they're Coils ready?

[Eirwen]

I had this talk with some very hardcore players in my FC the other day and found out that they were taking players for granted, saying "new players to this can look up a video". But takes away the fun of exploring by spoiling the fight for yourself.

ST was explained to me by my FC. Last we DF'd Syrcus Tower, players were furious because one team had players new to ST. Instead of helping, everybody left. Inside again I offered to help new players by explaining the fights and we all had a fun run.

I also have an example of a WAR and WHM fighting over both of them not doing their job. The WAR quit FFXIV for a few months after that.

I really miss (good) communication. It's like everybody cares more about the grind than the fun and pride of helping a new player out. There's so much gear to collect, weapons to upgrade, but are we really in a rush to get the best so fast, thereby taking players for granted and communicate poorly? It doesn't have to be this way!

[Schizm]

What I would like to see to get experienced players back into the mix is maybe rip T5 into three sections, call it a practice type mode where veteran players will get a reward for having a new player in the party (say like tokens that can be traded in for later gear), after passing all three sections can get a pass on T5 and or maybe an off-hand item to offer assistance to the fight. Like tanks would get "Badge of Bravery" that would let them proc and stun mob/bosses in coils for 15 seconds, healers can "Badge of Saints" and heal lower level or newer players without penalties or casting, DPS can get "Badge of Honor" and proc out skills and the new person get's a "Brotherhood Mark" which would let them not die but face weakness with 1 HP and will reset battle if everyone else is knocked out.

We are already out there with coil turns 9+ and would be good to get people into the mind set of helping more and maybe show the newer players that you will need to learn the future fights.

[HakuroDK]

It's just kind of aggravating to wipe over and over and over on content and be told that said content is the easiest thing in the world. If it were that easy, I wouldn't be wiping Turn 5 to the point of mental and emotional exhaustion. I mean, is there something I'm missing? I'm a competent player, I know exactly what I'm doing in Turn 5. Yet despite that, my party wipes every single time.

I think the worst part of it, for me, is that a very important key element of the story is directly tied into the Coils. If you do not play Coil, you miss out on the story. With Heavensward, if its hardcore elite raid is 24 people, the balance could actually effectively make the whole dungeon balanced out to the point where one or two less than flawless players can't completely destroy the whole run.

[Agrotc]

I mean, is there something I'm missing? I'm a competent player, I know exactly what I'm doing in Turn 5. Yet despite that, my party wipes every single time.

You just need to keep at it and hope for a group that has enough competent players to clear it. Back in August when I finally started really trying to clear T5 I must've spent around ten hours joining PFs or DF groups where the same person would mess up divebombs a few times in a row, leave and cause everyone else to leave with them, until by luck I got a group of other people who were in mostly the same situation as I was managed to get to Twisters on the first attempt and a couple of attempts later after everyone got the hang of the fight from that point on.

I know it sucks to be in the situation and when trying to help friends of mine with T5 we've basically run into the same situation all over again where one person will screw up repeatedly, leave, and cause anyone that we don't really know to leave along with them, throwing us back to square one. It also doesn't help that at this point in the game's life the people that are still stuck on T5 are probably either new, fairly casual players stuck in a similar situation, or people that are just bad.