DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

[Aana]

Rng affects everyone. For every bind in T8 forcing a delayed HT is a mnk losing gl trapped in conflagration in t5 or loosing gl getting shriek in t7, or a missed cast because blm got targeted by a plume instead of a melee it wouldn't affect. rng quite squarely falls in my 'deal with it' category. It hurts different jobs in different ways at different times but ultimately everyone has to deal with it.

I am all for enhancing utility because drg is obviously lacking in that department. But softening the positionals doesn't do jack squat about it. All that does is dumb down drg to the point it is the EZ mode dps relative to every other job by a wide margin. There would literally be nothing to consider except the basic rotation. That doesn't fix drg because it's challenge to play was never the problem. Add some utility sure, but just removing positionals cuz "it's hard to land HT!" Is silly. That's just sugar covered QQ.

[beowulf81]

yes, well done, rng affects everyone. And rng causes mistakes, i.e. missed positionals, which skill alone cannot prevent (and its good to see that you have accepted this, despite your earlier assertions to the contrary); which is when you see the cost of the mistake, and find out whether or not its recoverable, and moreover, is the potential gain of the class worth the cost of the mistake?

the way that the dragoon rotation works, you're building up to your most powerful attack (life surged full thrust) with both b4b and heavy thrust enabled, and the -10% piercing resistance from disembowel. HT needs to be reapplied after FT, so a delay in the combo means that FT may hit without it, meaning your most powerful attack is significantly gimped. You don't get a button that corrects that. Dragoons don't have perfect balance.

And if you cannot hit impulse drive from rear, you are deprived of an entire combo. you are deprived of your highest potency move. you are deprived of your -10% piercing resistance. You are not a monk that only loses a slight amount of potency but the actual effect itself is always applied, meaning that all you have to do in order to keep your stacks is hit the boss.

Monk does have its own challenges, as does every other class. Mistakes do not necessarily prevent the maintenance of stacks though, you are able to continue your rotation with maybe a small loss of potency on that one attack; the job is far more forgiving than dragoon, after all. And there is a substantial payoff for facing those challenges; superior ST dps.

Make a mistake as a dragoon, you are punished very harshly. And if you managed to play perfectly, guess what, you still did less damage then that monk or ninja that screwed up a couple of times.


I'm also not sure if getting rid of the positional requirements would be the right way to rectify Dragoon. What I do know is that the job needs to be overhauled because as it is right now it simply does not measure up to the other melee jobs. The cost for mistakes is too high, and the reward for perfect performance is too low. add to that piss poor mdef that ensures you will be a burden on healers when those unavoidable magic aoe's flare up and pitiful utility, there is no argument that can be made for someone to opt to choose a dragoon over a ninja or a monk at end game.

And that is simply not right.

[Spartan117]

Increase HT's buff to 25% from 15%, considering that:

1. We don't get a speed buff compared to MNK's GL3 and NIN's Huton (15% attack speed)
2. GL3 increases damage by 27% and Kiss of the wasp/viper increases damage by 20%

It's a better idea than increase all the potency across the board, since MNK and NIN can be punished for not keeping up important cooldowns. HT is an important cooldown for DRG and DRG should be punished for not being able to keep it up, although the ease of keeping up the buff is relatively easier.

Second: Lower TP cost of all skills by 5. MNK and NIN are doing 60 50 50 and 70 for specials whereas we're doing 70 60 60 and 80 for specials (no that extra 100 on invigorate will never cover this difference).

If the idea for DRG is to be that slow hitting high damage per hit DPS, these would essential. We're outspeed-ed by the other 2 classes without a skill to buff our attack speed by 15%, and yet our damage potencies are not high enough to justify a higher per hit DPS. NIN's 3 hit combo is only 30 potency lesser than DRG's, what imbalance is this! And for further imbalance, NIN's 3 hit combo costs 30 TP LESS.

So we attack slower, we hit about as hard each hit, we burn out TP faster than both classes, we don't bring any utility to the table without cross classing, we might as well relegate DRG to a CLASS rather than a JOB then.

[Cyfer]

Drg isn't that Iimpossible to play nor is mnks few extra dps in a real fight that obscene.

Mnks have FEW extra dps over DRG? Really?? Just a FEW?

[Cyfer]

I heared Dragoon will be fixed in patch 3.0

Which means that we have to suffer for another 6 months or more TT.TT

[Sleigh]

Rng affects everyone. For every bind in T8 forcing a delayed HT is a mnk losing gl trapped in conflagration in t5 or loosing gl getting shriek in t7, or a missed cast because blm got targeted by a plume instead of a melee it wouldn't affect. rng quite squarely falls in my 'deal with it' category. It hurts different jobs in different ways at different times but ultimately everyone has to deal with it.

I am all for enhancing utility because drg is obviously lacking in that department. But softening the positionals doesn't do jack squat about it. All that does is dumb down drg to the point it is the EZ mode dps relative to every other job by a wide margin. There would literally be nothing to consider except the basic rotation. That doesn't fix drg because it's challenge to play was never the problem. Add some utility sure, but just removing positionals cuz "it's hard to land HT!" Is silly. That's just sugar covered QQ.

Well RNG does affect everyone but no it is not equally.

There are regular mistakes/mishaps that come from miscalculations or the victim of RNG, like missing a BLM/SMN cast because you had to dodge (sometimes a mistake, sometimes just has to happen), or MNK missing a positional. They can happen a few times a fight, usually not too big a deal in reality. Then there are the catastrophic mistakes/mishaps from miscalculations/RNG, like losing GL3 when you didn't have to, or losing AH3/UI3 accidentally somehow, or going OoM with SMN. These things shouldn't happen unless they're SUPPOSED to happen, like losing GL3 to a phase change. The thing is, DRG missing a positional is closer to this category than the former.

That's the problem. No one is punished so harshly for a regular mistake/situation, even a missed cast from BLM is just a missed cast, go on your way. DRG loses out on the combo/buff, takes a potency loss, and heaven help you if you are in such a mechanic that doesn't let you get to your positional for more than 5s (as we have said multiple times does happen in the new coil ... which you don't seem to care about).

Regardless, this whole positioning thing is part of the problem, not the problem. MDEF (YES this is a thing right now ... we've had our DRG die in every single turn when others would have survived while progressing, and T13 is gonna be especially punishing now that we're working on it with a DRG), lower total DPS, no utility (MNK 20% Mantra, INT debuff Dragon Kick. NIN Goad, ability to let Storm's Path stay up 100% of the time without major tank aggro/DPS loss), they're the issues. The positional thing is just icing on the cake of why they're not ideal.

So DRG's less survivable, less DPS in turns it can play optimally and way less on ones it has to miss positionals, and has no importance to the raid. The overwhelming majority thinks it needs some help. You for some reason deny this with all your first half of T10 experience in all your glory and say we're wrong because we need to L2P. Cool.

[Sapphic]

That's not relevant.

Warriors can do amazing DPS

Because of that utility they don't get to be top tier tank.

OH WAIT.

PLD will out DPS a WAR on single targets.

[Ooshima]

PLD will out DPS a WAR on single targets.

On the condition that there is a WAR being the MT and PLD as OT in sword oath.

[Sapphic]

WAR had 0 dmg mitigation and in the first coil of bahamut people were using PLD skills to mitigate some heavy hits to make things easier such stacks on the snake in t1,

Hallowed Ground was being used to bypass intended mechanics, something which a WAR tank couldnt do. So, instead of removing utility of Hallowed ground to bring it down to WAR, they decided to bring WAR upto level. Without Hallowed Ground, before the WAR changes, WAR was as effective a tank as PLD.

Albeit, the changes do get a thumbs up from me XD

[Sapphic]

On the condition that there is a WAR being the MT and PLD as OT in sword oath.

Tested it with WAR without defiance, and over the long haul PLD pushes ahead, equally geared. PLD does have the singularly best damage buff in game, Berserk does not compare. PLD v MRD? different game XD