Do NOT make the same mistake as FFXI.

[Serdapi]

This is not a problem of class or design. It's a problem of the players.

As stated multiple times in this tread this boss can be beat with any setup. The problem is that people don't want to do it with any setup, they want whats easiest. This causes the community to go with a set value of classes. THIS IS NOT THE CLASSES FAULT. It's the people creating the party's fault.

Please don't go around saying that "boohoo I'm a melee class and I don't get invited to XXX". Why can't you start your own party, you can fight the boss however you want. If you die because you have glad/Mrd/pug/lnc/con/thm/arc/glad then its not the fault of your party set up its how you're playing. I think it's silly when people complain because they think the game is favoring certain classes when its not the game its the people creating the party that is.

This is the type of game that allows you to play however you want, don't want to go with the fasts/easiest way to do the content? Then don't. Though if you're to lazy or not willing to wait to find 7 other people that want to do it your way then don't complain about. Then on top of that not willing to die a few times to figure out how to beat it with the set up you bring then don't complain. There is another thread open showing that you can beat the it without 4 Archers.

Please don't go crying wolf on other classes because your upset that you feel left out. It fosters bad outcomes for the whole community.

[Synfrag]

First off. There is a solution to your problem, It's called a Linkshell, join one and don't pug. Pugs will be what they will be and you can't get mad at a person who wants to do things one way. It's not pigeonholing until it is deemed impossible to overcome in a normal setup. And my friend, it is far to early to deem it that. 3 days into new content, with no job system even in place yet, SE even having said it was risky to release this content before the combat and job system were ironed out.

Everyone needs to take a chill pill and think for a moment before jumping to conclusions.

It's imbalanced, and SE is notorious for horrible balancing.

Just plain wrong! People exploit things in FFXI just like any other game.

SE is going to nerf all the bosses and just make them ezmode for everyone.

Yeah because that's what they did with... um... 0 FFXI bosses? Did you ever play FFXI? Did you beat Ouryu on PM 4-2 with a balanced group of say NIN,RNG,WHM,MNK,DRK,BLM? I've never seen this answered yes... You used a bunch on BST/SMN and kited the damn thing or you used a NIN and 5 BLMS etc. etc.

You guys are failing to realize that Final Fantasy allows you to switch classes on the same character for reasons like this. It's one of the best things they do. If they didn't, then they would have to make all the bosses easy mode and all strategy would go out the window, everything would be a positional tank and spank like virtually every other MMO. You are EXPECTED to rank up more than one class/job. If that doesn't suit your fancy, and I'm breaking a personal rule by saying this, GTFO. People are twisting this game into a clone.

[Bethor]

You are EXPECTED to rank up more than one class/job.

That's what SE's intention is, since they have this "change whereever you want" system. But that pressure is caused by the players and not by SE themselves.
The developers never said you have to level #'s jobs, so you can actually enjoy the game.

The decision whichs jobs to level up and play should be always on the players side not on the developers.

And doing Ouryu with 1 NIN and 5 BLM's was just the "easy" way. SE didn't implement that fight just so people would actually level BLM or NIN.

But all the neys and heys are unnecessary right now, since there are still fixes and changements to be made.

[Synfrag]

But all the neys and heys are unnecessary right now, since there are still fixes and changements to be made.

Exactly!

And doing Ouryu with 1 NIN and 5 BLM's was just the "easy" way. SE didn't implement that fight just so people would actually level BLM or NIN.

It was pretty damn hard to do it without a specific build. We wiped, burning 2-hours at least 4-5 times with experimental setups. And getting there was a B**** and a half. So it made sense to bring a known setup. There were others too.

[ViolentDjango]

It bothers me when a game ends up doing this. I want to play what's fun, not what you need to clear the easiest path through content.

Blizzard (WoW) is going through some similar issues. Their recent Firelands patch has people going on about many of the boss fights being unforgiving on melee and less unforgiving on ranged. How Blizzard replied to that? "It's a class issue, the fights themselves are fine."

This is not what a game should be doing for it's players.

This is, unfortunately, completely unavoidable in MMOs. The only way to fix it is to embrace it and balance against by making content that's only manageable by each class. FFXI has the same exact problem -- if you want to get something in Abyssea you have to have WHM/BLM/NIN/THF/WAR, and often times even if you have one of those jobs yourself, you end up needing another one of them because no one else in your group has it. I just finished spending my entire weekend getting /BRD for BLM, just to have every group I tried to get into tell me "Sorry" because I didn't have WHM90 to take with them.

Its frustrating -- but the only way to avoid it is to either make everything 100% solo-able, or to cater to it by introducing multiple methods of getting things done that require each job specifically. The only way to make people want to bring every job is ot introduce a mob for every type of damage -- but then it becomes impossible to do anything unless you have one of every class, which is an equally daunting and frustrating task.

[Demacia]

This is, unfortunately, completely unavoidable in MMOs. The only way to fix it is to embrace it and balance against by making content that's only manageable by each class. FFXI has the same exact problem -- if you want to get something in Abyssea you have to have WHM/BLM/NIN/THF/WAR, and often times even if you have one of those jobs yourself, you end up needing another one of them because no one else in your group has it. I just finished spending my entire weekend getting /BRD for BLM, just to have every group I tried to get into tell me "Sorry" because I didn't have WHM90 to take with them.

Its frustrating -- but the only way to avoid it is to either make everything 100% solo-able, or to cater to it by introducing multiple methods of getting things done that require each job specifically. The only way to make people want to bring every job is ot introduce a mob for every type of damage -- but then it becomes impossible to do anything unless you have one of every class, which is an equally daunting and frustrating task.

Honestly, I never felt that FFXI truly had that issue UNTIL abyssea was released. The weakness trigger system absolutely ruined job diversity.

[Bethor]

Honestly, I never felt that FFXI truly had that issue UNTIL abyssea was released. The weakness trigger system absolutely ruined job diversity.

Now I know why I left the game before they raised the lvl cap beyond 75 :3 Even though I'm missing it at some point

[Demacia]

Now I know why I left the game before they raised the lvl cap beyond 75 :3 Even though I'm missing it at some point

I miss old FFXI. It's wrecked beyond repair now.

[Bethor]

I wonder if we'll ever be able to actually get the same "feeling" again. That's what I keep saying over and over. A lot of people are spoiled by FFXI at some point and are probably afraid, that FFXIV won't give the same feeling we've had in ol' Vana'diel.

For my part, I want the same thrilling expierence when I first went out to Sarutarabura (ahhh spelling that stupid area >-<) and was running around /panicing because a 1hp/tick poison was about to kill my taru. Or when you attack that Crawler thingy and you only notice a few HP's later, that it's the mighty Spiny Spipi which is about to kill.

There were a lot of.. and really a lot of "pissed off" moments but I have to admit that game rocked by pants to some point.

Ah well. No place to get too nostalgic. We need to have patience until the game's further developed.

[Demacia]

I wonder if we'll ever be able to actually get the same "feeling" again. That's what I keep saying over and over. A lot of people are spoiled by FFXI at some point and are probably afraid, that FFXIV won't give the same feeling we've had in ol' Vana'diel.

For my part, I want the same thrilling expierence when I first went out to Sarutarabura (ahhh spelling that stupid area >-<) and was running around /panicing because a 1hp/tick poison was about to kill my taru. Or when you attack that Crawler thingy and you only notice a few HP's later, that it's the mighty Spiny Spipi which is about to kill.

There were a lot of.. and really a lot of "pissed off" moments but I have to admit that game rocked by pants to some point.

Ah well. No place to get too nostalgic. We need to have patience until the game's further developed.

As far as exploration and travel goes I don't think ANY game will compare to FFXI. I have been getting that "old XI" feeling though after putting together some baller EXP parties and blowing mobs up with BRs (It's no skillchain but that damage is off the chain). Not to mention running totorak with a straight 25-30 group and actually needing to use sleepga/off tanks mid boss fight. GL to any group who takes on the secret boss without 40+.