Thank you SE!! (DF lockout)

[Noshpan]

They wouldn't have had to introduce this feature if some people didn't act like complete cockwombles and fish for insta-ques.

As the sayings goes "A few bad apples spoils the whole bunch", "This is why we can't have nice things" etc. Even if you, yourself, don't DF fish, we, as a community, have only ourselves to blame for a feature (that I welcome) being implemented.

[Giantbane]

They wouldn't have had to introduce this feature if some people didn't act like complete cockwombles and fish for insta-ques.

As the sayings goes "A few bad apples spoils the whole bunch", "This is why we can't have nice things" etc. Even if you, yourself, don't DF fish, we, as a community, have only ourselves to blame for a feature (that I welcome) being implemented.

They could have come up with a better solution than 3 withdrawls per day. 3 withdrawls every hour, or every few hours you'd think would still curb the fishing that is causing the problems here. They could also have changed the display so it doesn't show whether a run is in progress or not. Although I suppose it depends on what their idea of "temporary" is. If it's only a 5 min timeout or something like that, it's not that bad. But we'll have to wait and see.

-OR-

Since the problem is fishing for instant queues, just give people what they want. Give them 3 options for queuing: "fresh dungeons only", "in progress or fresh dungeons", or "in progress only". If people really, really only want to do dungeons that are already in progress, let them. This will effectively get everyone who is fishing for dungeons OUT of the pool of players that just want to run the dungeon from start to finish and you won't get any fishing whatsoever. And before you think that everyone's just going to do "join in progress only", you have to remember that if too many people start doing "join in progress only" they're going to have to wait in line not only with everyone else who wants to "join in progress only" but they'll also be in line with "join in progress optional". At that point, you're probably going to end up waiting longer in the "join in progress only" line than it would have taken to just do the dungeon from start to finish. It will balance itself out that way.

In addition, don't show the actual progress of the dungeon. CT/ST was changed to showing 0/1 only, no matter what the progression level was. That should be the standard for all dungeons. This will further reduce fishing for "last boss only" runs, and will prevent people dodging "bad" in progress runs like 0/3 or 0/4, which is arguably where people need the most help.

And then to just to take care of the trolls that like to queue/withdraw just to mess with people, give anyone with 3+ withdraws in a 1hr timespan a 10min timeout.

Granted, it's a slightly more involved solution, but it should handle most of the withdraw problems we've been seeing, without the risk of being overly punitive to those who get stuck in a situation where they need to withdraw for legitimate reasons.

[Mykll]

In addition, don't show the actual progress of the dungeon. CT/ST was changed to showing 0/1 only, no matter what the progression level was. That should be the standard for all dungeons. This will further reduce fishing for "last boss only" runs, and will prevent people dodging "bad" in progress runs like 0/3 or 0/4, which is arguably where people need the most help.

ONLY if they can allow direct invites to the dungeon. The progress is the only way I know I might be getting someone's dungeon run to help them out to finish. Otherwise, it will be enter, look around, wrong group, leave. Queue up again, enter, look around, wrong party, leave. Yet another bad decision from SE that we cannot invite directly into a dungeon. That is the only time I have ever fished.

And because of their bad decision making, I might be punished starting Tuesday to help friends out. Many times it takes several fresh run withdraws, in order to get the partial run I wanted to help someone out. Which is bad. The partial run should have taken priority and been in front of the queue to begin with.

[Snugglebutt]

ONLY if they can allow direct invites to the dungeon. The progress is the only way I know I might be getting someone's dungeon run to help them out to finish. Otherwise, it will be enter, look around, wrong group, leave. Queue up again, enter, look around, wrong party, leave. Yet another bad decision from SE that we cannot invite directly into a dungeon. That is the only time I have ever fished.

And because of their bad decision making, I might be punished starting Tuesday to help friends out. Many times it takes several fresh run withdraws, in order to get the partial run I wanted to help someone out. Which is bad. The partial run should have taken priority and been in front of the queue to begin with.

You would rightly deserve to be punished for doing so in my opinion even if not everyone will agree and the reason is all those groups you enter and ditch in an effort to find someone specific is screwing with all those other people in those other groups. If going to join an in progress run then help the people you first join with or don't join in the first place, the friend would probably get someone come in and help even if it is not you and if they don't then help them run it again after they finish the current run only this time help from the beginning instead of trolling all those other groups trying to find your friend.

Way too many people abuse the system while trying to fish for things like final boss only, consider yourself a casualty of war if you feel like it punishes you alongside them but while it might seem mean...I have very little sympathy for those who fish for a friends group anymore so than those who fish for final boss since I still consider it trolling a lot of other groups while searching for their friend. I have no problem with adding an invite function to an already in dungeon running group and it would be a good idea to have such but as the system works currently without it your annoying the many groups you pass through on the way to finding your specific one.

[Mykll]

You would rightly deserve to be punished for doing so in my opinion even if not everyone will agree and the reason is all those groups you enter and ditch in an effort to find someone specific is screwing with all those other people in those other groups. If going to join an in progress run then help the people you first join with or don't join in the first place, the friend would probably get someone come in and help even if it is not you and if they don't then help them run it again after they finish the current run only this time help from the beginning instead of trolling all those other groups trying to find your friend.

Way too many people abuse the system while trying to fish for things like final boss only, consider yourself a casualty of war if you feel like it punishes you alongside them but while it might seem mean...I have very little sympathy for those who fish for a friends group anymore so than those who fish for final boss since I still consider it trolling a lot of other groups while searching for their friend. I have no problem with adding an invite function to an already in dungeon running group and it would be a good idea to have such but as the system works currently without it your annoying the many groups you pass through on the way to finding your specific one.

I'll consider myself and everyone a casualty of a bad system. If I KNOW there is an in progress, why is that not the front of the queue ahead of a fresh group that has not even started yet?

If the friend already had to wait hours, or myself had to wait hours as a dps to get into something, and I can easily offer to swap to tank or healer, knowing my then empty dps slot would fill up faster, why would I think staying in as dps instead of changing roles for the group, or letting someone I know rot waiting for a replacement or starting over at the back of the line for a new run, that we would get a replacement before the dungeon timer runs out, when we/they already waited longer than the timer just to get in to begin with?

You agree with a system to have direct invites. If that happened that I would bypass the groups I am not looking for. Same as me trying to help a friend, or me offering to swap from dps to a tank/healer so the current group can continue instead of starting over at the end of the line, because I am not blind to long queue times. We want the same thing and it is just splitting hairs with the same end result, except the groups that I withdraw never know that I "withdrew" and passed them up with a direct invite to the dungeon.

[Snugglebutt]

You agree with a system to have direct invites. If that happened that I would bypass the groups I am not looking for. Same as me trying to help a friend, or me offering to swap from dps to a tank/healer so the current group can continue instead of starting over at the end of the line, because I am not blind to long queue times. We want the same thing and it is just splitting hairs with the same end result, except the groups that I withdraw never know that I "withdrew" and passed them up with a direct invite to the dungeon.

Yes I agree an invite function would be good but until that time with the current system people who keep ditching groups and ditching queues should be punished, we have the punishment for those who ditch in progress via a 30 minute lockout and now we have a punishment for those who keep trolling, abusing or ditching the groups when the window pops up to start a run.

These punishments are good incentive to stop people doing those things which annoy a vast amount of people. If they add an invite function, great but this latest punishment is merely a step in the right direction to solve a multitude of problems...what you do adds to this problem even if unintentionally, this latest measure does not solve all the problems and solution to your specific aspect which currently adds to the problem this is trying to deter may come about further down the line. I consider it one step of many they will probably introduce over time.

The current amount of time locked out from withdrawing constantly over and over is debatable but what is not as far as I am concerned is the need for a lockout punishment for such actions and a three strike rule seems fair amount of chances to stop abusing, trolling or annoying the other members of groups.

[Mykll]

Yes I agree an invite function would be good but until that time with the current system people who keep ditching groups and ditching queues should be punished, we have the punishment for those who ditch in progress via a 30 minute lockout and now we have a punishment for those who keep trolling, abusing or ditching the groups when the window pops up to start a run.

Just to clarify, I have withdrawn before, if the in progress does not match the friend I am looking for. Or, the rare "Oh crap I forgot to uncheck that dungeon". But I have never gone into a dungeon, seen I got the wrong group, and left. I stuck it out. I agree that this is a step in the right direction, but it seems like it could turn out to be a poor Band-Aid slapped onto a poorly conceived and executed system.

[BobbinT]

You would rightly deserve to be punished...

So... you think anyone who DF-ing for like more than half hours and missed their commence by accident because no one in right mind staring the screen that long unless he/she got not life, and have to re-DF again are not punishable enough?

there are many other things in game could do which fills time while queuing.

and please enlight us those "things" that are risk-free and not mind-numbingly boredom-fest.

[Snugglebutt]

So... you think anyone who DF-ing for like more than half hours and missed their commence by accident because no one in right mind staring the screen that long unless he/she got not life, and have to re-DF again are not punishable enough?

Given if you miss one or two times you do not get this new punishment, then yes because clearly you don't care very much for missing the commencement if you do it over and over again despite missing the previous times. That's why it is not a punishment for timing out or withdrawing for first few times, most people with some common sense would learn from their mistakes not constantly repeat them over and over again in the same day and especially if they actually cared about it.

[BobbinT]

Given if you miss one or two times you do not get this new punishment, then yes because clearly you don't care very much for missing the commencement if you do it over and over again despite missing the previous times. That's why it is not a punishment for timing out or withdrawing for first few times, most people with some common sense would learn from their mistakes not constantly repeat them over and over again in the same day and especially if they actually cared about it.

Define "care".

and yeah, you still haven't give that example of safe "things" you can do.