As promised: PICS

**MeowyWowie** · 07-25-2011 07:32 AM

We're taking some time to farm chests and ogre before we really attempt last boss. We're in no rush, plenty of time before 1.19 releases.

**Chiz** · 07-25-2011 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Any Melee class can do this fight. Don't even really need a 2nd tank, but it helps. One mistake could spell disaster. It just so happened that we had 2 PUGs, that's all.

Edit: Only people with hate the entire fight were our tanks too, everyone else watches their hate meters and don't pull aggro.

I think the bolded part is the problem people have issue with, there's much smaller margin for error and exponential increase in chances for that one disastrous mistake to occur as you continue to add more melee around the Ogre. If you use Archers and mages only, there is virtually no chance for anyone other than the tank(s) to incur the wrath of any such mistakes. Basically the risk vs. reward trade-off heavily favors a ranged party composition to the point it eliminates any actual choice or alternative strategy, especially for groups that are struggling with it and trying to beat it for the first time.

We beat the Ogre with a melee or two but there's little doubt in my mind an all ranged group would've done it faster and cleaner with less risk, far greater margin of error. For those having trouble and want a tip in the right direction:

Just have your melee follow the same path as the mages on transition, then set up directly to the side of the Ogre once its settled in. That will prevent triggering Elbow Smash and avoid the front conal range of Fire Spit. Still need to avoid or stun Inferno Drop though.

**MeowyWowie** · 07-25-2011 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Chiz

I think the bolded part is the problem people have issue with, there's much smaller margin for error and exponential increase in chances for that one disastrous mistake to occur as you continue to add more melee around the Ogre. If you use Archers and mages only, there is virtually no chance for anyone other than the tank(s) to incur the wrath of any such mistakes. Basically the risk vs. reward trade-off heavily favors a ranged party composition to the point it eliminates any actual choice or alternative strategy, especially for groups that are struggling with it and trying to beat it for the first time.

We beat the Ogre with a melee or two but there's little doubt in my mind an all ranged group would've done it faster and cleaner with less risk, far greater margin of error. For those having trouble and want a tip in the right direction:

Just have your melee follow the same path as the mages on transition, then set up directly to the side of the Ogre once its settled in. That will prevent triggering Elbow Smash and avoid the front conal range of Fire Spit. Still need to avoid or stun Inferno Drop though.

I was implying that 2 tanks are safer than one. There's really not a big difference between melee and archer parties. A "disaster" scenario would be if the (only) tank died. You're screwed no matter what your setup is in that case.

**Chiz** · 07-25-2011 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

I was implying that 2 tanks are safer than one. There's really not a big difference between melee and archer parties. A "disaster" scenario would be if the (only) tank died. You're screwed no matter what your setup is in that case.

Ah I see. I'd say having multiple melee sponging damage or dying would ultimately lead to the same disastrous result, which I think is the biggest problem people are facing with the Ogre currently.

I completely disagree though about there not being a big difference between melee and archer parties though, one group composition has minimal risk, the other increases risk exponentially with each member in harms way. Sure its possible for experienced melee players to avoid triggering and taking AoE damage but that doesn't negate the fact ranged attackers can avoid taking the risk completely.

**Karbine** · 07-25-2011 06:04 PM

Show me one MMO where its the same difficulty every fight with all class setups.
You are going to be able to do things easier in some fights with certain classes than others thats just the way it is. As long as you can do it with relative planning and strategy with other class setups I fail to see the problem. Especially when people are complaining day one that they can' t win.

**Vahzl** · 07-25-2011 08:15 PM

We were doing it fine last night, with only 1 archer and 4 mages.

Would have beaten it too if it wasn't for my internet exploding, leaving us down a DD and back up healer.

**Malakhim** · 07-25-2011 08:18 PM

Wait, so people are bitching about them taking FFXIV off easy mode?

...Does not compute. Last night was my first Toto-rak run, and we got our asses handed to us by that black diremite boss, and damnit we thought it was the most epic thing ever.

Also, looks like those hate meters are useful, huh?

**Preypacer** · 07-25-2011 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Here ya go, proof that Ogre can be killed without archer burn. Our setup was GLD GLD THM CON CON PUG PUG ARC. We don't run away from any tp moves, ever. Only the ARC uses ranged attack. It's really very simple, anyone could do it if they're competent enough.

Nice.... LNC in one video and PUG in these screenshots.

Perhaps for once I can go to a fight like this and not be told "sorry, you're the wrong class. You have to level "class here" if you want to be useful."

**Raze** · 07-25-2011 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Preypacer

Nice.... LNC in one video and PUG in these screenshots.

Perhaps for once I can go to a fight like this and not be told "sorry, you're the wrong class. You have to level "class here" if you want to be useful."

I think I saw a post where I guy tanked the ogre pretty effectively as a MRD. Anyone who turns down a DD because they're not the "right type" of DD on fights like this is just looking for canned corn, don't waste your time with them ^^

**Preypacer** · 07-25-2011 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Raze

I think I saw a post where I guy tanked the ogre pretty effectively as a MRD. Anyone who turns down a DD because they're not the "right type" of DD on fights like this is just looking for canned corn, don't waste your time with them ^^

Indeed.

Some people really just get stuck in their own way of thinking and refuse to accept any other alternative. So, it's good that there's at least 2 proven methods to taking the thing down, with more class choices being viable between them.

It just makes it really aggravating to try and participate in a game when people are outright refusing anything that isn't listed as "useful" on their wiki guide.

In FFXI once, I was playing DRG as my main (love that job, don't care how much it was ragged on). A friend of mine was in a colibri party out in Aht Urghan, and asked if I wanted to join. I said sure! They asked, in party chat, if I could join. The leader asked what job (I was DRG/SAM). When my friend told him, he flat out said "lolDRG {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass}". My friend explained that they were fighting birds... DRG use polearms with piercing damage... piercing damage is great against birds". The leader said "I don't care. He's a DRG. Get me any other Job with a polearm and fine. But not lolDRG". The rest of the party members ripped into him for being a closed-minded ass, and he ended up inviting me.

Upon entering the party, the first thing the guy says is, "Don't get comfortable. The moment you show you can't put out good DPS, you're being replaced".

Not only was I not replaced, but by the time I left the party he had a very different opinion of DRGs. He would actually invite me every time he could after that.

Now, that's not a story to indicate "how awesome I was on DRG". I was as good as any DRG who knows how to play their job well could be in that situation. It's more about how closed minded and willfully ignorant people can be, to their own detriment even.

Anyway.... I hope something like people finding alternate ways to beat the ogre can be repeated in other fights going forward so maybe there won't be people having to deal with the whole "wrong class" BS again.

Thread: As promised: PICS

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