Coil lockouts: "we haven’t been able to find an alternative system to take its place"

[Vena_Sera]

A warning message should pop up alerting that someone has cleared already and if you proceed loot cannot be rolled on. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THIS WILL WORK. Otherwise, people will sell/carry/farm their way to gear. Achievements are also locked out. This is the only LEGIT means of replaying turns for practice or fun purposes ONLY!

Not saying I disagree with this idea. But what's stopping 6-7 players that cleared from partying up with someone who hasn't and then proceed to sell them a run? The players only have to forfeit loot. That doesn't mean they can't run someone through the content still. Personally, I have zero issues with selling runs. It's a very economically friendly service. And to be honest, I like your idea. But, it would never work. With the way SE handles Coil, it just ends up in the DF with no lockout eventually anyway.

[Nestama]

People are already doing that with Second Coil, Vena. The current player lockout isn't stopping people from selling carries (or just carrying in general). People still sell Turn 5 runs. People still sell Titan EX runs. So forth.

Anyway, it seems Yoshi-P's only reason for the player lockout is just to keep the game from having an Allagan inflation (or to keep people who do not deserve the gear from getting it or something ridiculous like that). This thread has a couple of ideas thrown here and their that can keep the Allagan inflation in check.

• People who have cleared a Turn can go back and do it again, but can not roll on loot.
• People who have cleared a Turn will lock people who need the win out of getting loot if they enter the instance (a warning will pop up)
• If five or more people who have cleared the Turn join your party, then you are locked out of getting loot for that Turn (a warning will pop up)

The last option will motivate people to make a party made mostly out of people needing the win and loot, but also allow you to invite someone to fill in a gap that takes ages to fill up (kiters for T7, BRDs for T8, etc).

[SantaClaw]

Seriously how hard is that for SE find an alternative way to replace the current coil lockouts system.

Makes it Job's lockout instead, meaning you can do coil with every level 50 classes you have, except that you're not allowed to loot/greed other gears than your current job.
Let me reminds you that FFXIV allows players to have multiple jobs on one character, and yet you can only do coils with one job for each turn? This is unacceptable, and what is the point of having all level 50 classes then?

[MikeyLikesIt]

Seriously how hard is that for SE find an alternative way to replace the current coil lockouts system.


Makes it Job's lockout instead, meaning you can do coil with every level 50 classes you have, except that you're not allowed to loot/greed other gears than your current job.
Let me reminds you that FFXIV allows players to have multiple jobs on one character, and yet you can only do coils with one job for each turn? This is unacceptable, and what is the point of having all level 50 classes then?

I agree 100%. This game is designed around never needing an alt character, because our one character contains said alts. Yet, that's not the case regarding raiding. FFXIV's system of multi-classingshoots itself in the foot with an overly strict lockout system.

I've been clearing Turn 9 for 3 months now and could clear it another 50 times before I'm satisfied. I have yet to recieve a wep for any of my classes, especially my main. This loot system will only get worse as time moves on with more classes throwing their name in the hat that is our weekly loot pool.

A question, if the lockout were to be removed, what would you do once everyone was fully geared?

I think the RNG issue is one which needs to be sorted, perhaps through means of token drops. If you complete a turn with lockout you get a token, 10 can be exchanged for any piece of loot from a turn you have already cleared, or something like that to lessen the pain of RNG.

As it is now, I play this game for about 2-3 hours per week for the past 2+ months. I log in on raid night, clear SCOB, log out and play other games besides FFXIV. If lockout were removed, I would be raiding SCOB several times per week, helping FC mates who are in different statics, or none at all. I'd even help friends outside the FC with SCOB as well. Once I got fully geared on all my alt classes, I suppose I might log in less, but not a seldom as I do now, as there is absolutely no content for me available once my lockout is used up for a given week, nor is there content that friends of mine or FC mates are on that I can lend a hand with. If i'm not going to play a game I'd rather it be because of boredom rather than an artificial progression gate.

I really like this game, but when the developers purposely prevent me from playing their most challenging content more than once per week, I take issue.

[grumpypants]

I get the feeling I'm in the minority here, but I think things are perfect as they are. Not trying to upset anyone or start any wars by posting, but just want to share my opinion.

1) There absolutely has to be some type of status/epeen for hardcore players. Right now, coil drops are the only skill based status items in the game. Removing the lockout will significantly decrease the status associated with these items.
2) There are gear alternatives of the same item level that can be obtained without doing coil, so there isn't any punishment or penalty for not doing coil.
3) Coil lockout is already removed when the next major patch hits, so the content is not inaccessible to players. People can still obtain the items and experience the content, just on a slight delay.

TLDR: Removing the lockout will take away the only thing that keeps some players in the game, in exchange for providing players who already have options with even more options.

[Kinseykinz]

Even without selling, honestly.

Also, even though coil rewards are oriented towards 8-person static groups (8 drops per week), this would impact the drops they can get by allowing them to just be like "oh yeah I really want a High Allagan Bow", so the group just does turn 9 over and over until they get it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - but it might be against the kind of loot restriction/incentive style that SE want to go for on Coil, if you can just farm until you get the exact drop you're after.

Or you know, they could make it so you can only lot the FIRST time you clear each turn each week...basically making it so drop wise, you get the exact same odds you do now, but you can re-enter as much as you want. This way, just like now, you have to work out your lots...after that, if you wanna take people through, fine....and if SE doesn't like that it means that if you help someone they now have no competition for lots since you are 'locked out' of lots for the rest of the week then that means SE should then adjusts the drop rates so that if you go in with only 1 new person, that they only get one chest....and it may or may not contain gear, that also works. (Or even make it that you can only re-run the content after you're initial clear each week if x amount of people have yet to clear it for the week) What ISN'T working is the forced lockout. You should be able to play the content as much as you'd like....gear shouldn't be the only reason you do something.

I get the feeling I'm in the minority here, but I think things are perfect as they are. Not trying to upset anyone or start any wars by posting, but just want to share my opinion.

1) There absolutely has to be some type of status/epeen for hardcore players. Right now, coil drops are the only skill based status items in the game. Removing the lockout will significantly decrease the status associated with these items.
2) There are gear alternatives of the same item level that can be obtained without doing coil, so there isn't any punishment or penalty for not doing coil.
3) Coil lockout is already removed when the next major patch hits, so the content is not inaccessible to players. People can still obtain the items and experience the content, just on a slight delay.

TLDR: Removing the lockout will take away the only thing that keeps some players in the game, in exchange for providing players who already have options with even more options.

1. They still have their status. I mean, come on, EX primals aren't gated and the More Elite groups win those battles (and gain the goods), far faster than everyone else. Binding Coil 1 could have been DF from the get go and people STILL would have spent months dying to twisters....and it STILL would have been the 'Elite' people beating it first...esp on a regular basis. Access to content is not equal to Skill. The skilled and organized, (who also put in tons of hours) will ALWAYS clear faster than those who are less skilled, organized and time-committed.
2. It's not about gear, it's about story-progression. People serious about farming for gear will once again, find others to party with (static) who share the same desires. But not being show a FC buddy the ropes in your downtime is silly.
3. 'slight delay'=more than 8 months, when the content is no longer relevant and the next chapter of the story is out.

People are so hung up (including SE) on the damn drops they are missing the point of playing....the STORY. People, you don't even need the current 'endgame' gear drops until the next patch's content goes live. (IE, you don't NEED BC2 gears to clear ANYTHING in game atm...but once patch 2.4 comes out, it'll be necessary for a while for some content). So focusing on the gear is wrong...yes, nice stuff drops....but it's more about the progression (and I hope fun of battle) than gear....if you only keep doing it for shinies, that's just sad.

[grumpypants]

'slight delay'=more than 8 months

This is from when the content was released. I would estimate that most coil players have only had SCOB cleared for 3-4 months. I would also say that a decent chunk of this content is being pugged on a lot of servers, so we're really looking at a 4-5 month delay for 2ish bosses in coil. When you look at the game as a whole, this is a relatively small amount of content.

if you only keep doing it for shinies, that's just sad.

I'm sorry that you feel the reason some people play this game is sad. I do understand that posting here isn't really going to change anyones mind, and that wasn't the intent. It was mostly just to be a voice for the other side since it seems that people overwhelmingly are supporting the lockout removal. My main point in all of this is that if the game is striving to have/retain a little of something for everyone, then it might be a good idea to leave something for the people who "do it for shinies". Easing the lockout means that more people will have shinies, and it unquestionably diminishes the value of those shinies.

What if we were to ease up on other parts of the game that people work hard for? Would the value of the Zodiac weapons be the same if they made them easier to obtain and everyone had one? What about end game crafting gear? Would market values not take a hit if everyone could craft anything in the game including 3 (and 4) star items? I feel that although people who play this game for status might be a minority, there should still be a little piece of the game for them, and the current setup manages to do this well.

[Shai]

Confession: I only read about half this thread, but the first half seemed to neglect the obvious.

The way Coil is set up severely limits the flow of gear into the game.

The 1% would sell runs to the 3% and the 95% would actually be included. I agree with that post.
The bigger problem is that the 1% would level alts - basically clear the Coil the way it was meant to be cleared with a team of Alternates (8ppl).
Then use 7 alts to run 1 character through Coil, 8 times. That's 8 pieces of loot PER CHARACTER per week.

I mean this is already being done on a small scale, but you're basically talking about letting the same 7 characters run 1 "main" through Coil to grab all the loot.
That's an insane amount of Coil gear being distributed compared to 1:1 ratio (8 players, 8 pieces of loot).

I think the Coil system is the worst endgame system I've ever seen in my life, and the way Hunts was implemented is also a tragedy. However, I do understand why (and how) they tried to maintain the flow of gear into the game. The biggest problem being it prevents large group play and forces this 8-man team mentality. It's so difficult to manage a Free Company when everyone is only loyal to their current 8-man group of content cleaners. It's a sad excuse for a "Massive Multiplayer" content.