Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[Tsuwu]

Just a minor point in case, here...

Was watching an FC mate's stream of T9, as she was running with a pick up group.
There was a DRG in the group with low damage output, dying to Dynamo, getting exploded on constantly, getting meteors dropped on her head, etc.

And the DRG blamed the group for not carrying her.

Then, we thought back to launch. This same DRG was one of the vocal ones about nerfing T5. Never got her clear until, after months of complaints, she was carried by some friends of ours.
No sense of accomplishment. No struggle. Just easy mode.
And here she is in T9, expecting - even demanding from team members that they make up for her low damage output (Which was 1/3 of our WAR's).

These nerfs allow this type of player through to T10.
And the cycle will continue.

But alas, it's already been decided. Hopefully this outcry will reach some receptive ears at Mr. G's team, and have some type of productive sway in regards to preserving challenge in this game.

[Empressia]

Hopefully this outcry will reach some receptive ears at Mr. G's team, and have some type of productive sway in regards to preserving challenge in this game.

I believe even Mr G. can't fix stupidity as shown on tat loldrg u mentioned

[Tsuwu]

I believe even Mr G. can't fix stupidity as shown on tat loldrg u mentioned

Can't fix stupid.
But he can make it impossible for stupid to get through T10 without getting better at this game.

[Silverharp]

stuff

What? This doesn't have anything to do with coil nerfs....like at all. As soon as the group noticed that not only did this DRG have absolutely no idea what (s)he were doing, but was actually blaming the rest of the group for their poor performance, they should've kicked them immediately. The only thing allowing people like this into the further turns are the people who for some reason, won't kick them for being a douche.

[Tsuwu]

What? This doesn't have anything to do with coil nerfs....like at all. As soon as the group noticed that not only did this DRG have absolutely no idea what (s)he were doing, but was actually blaming the rest of the group for their poor performance, they should've kicked them immediately.

It doesn't directly deal with nerfs, no.
The connection lies in that she was only able to clear T5 after the 20% echo and other buffs. However, by her clearing Nerfed Coil, she expected the same in T9.
She will likely expect the same in T13.

She might just be an isolated case, but that seems naïve to me.

Also, the group kept trying their best to get somewhere with her in the group as a kindness, but when she starting insulting others in TS, 5/8 just dropped.

[Dererk]

I for one don't mind nerfing of old content I just don't like people selling runs. But I would like to clear it while its still hard.SO ON THAT NOTE.....has any one ever bothered to ASK SE to let us turn the nurf mod off in pre made party's....just a thought

[ReplicaX]

It doesn't directly deal with nerfs, no.

I feel this is more on the community policing side.

Overall, if someone isn't learning from mistakes, accepting polite constructive criticism, or working with their other party members, they shouldn't be carried. Your friends that carried them through T5, got that DRG past that gate.

I don't think there is much the Dev Team can do. They let players pay for clears and groups sell them. Many players carry friends, FC members, or mutual as well. Ppl are gonna find ways through that gate for the reward.

I spent Oct and Nov of 2013 helping various skill lvls of my FC to learn Titan HM as these dodge mechanics weren't going away and it was the perfect roadblock to teach ppl and get a proper mindset instead of a privileged one.

[Magis]

Snip

A whole lot of nothing in that post except OMG THEY DON'T AGREE WITH ME LET ME JUST CALL THEM A SLEW OF NAMES.

No one is saying you shouldn't be able to get into coil at all. They are saying coil shouldn't be changed. You have the same chance as everyone else in this game. And screw off with this "elites" BS. The only "elites" in FFXIV are those who do world firsts, BlueGartr and the like. Coil is one of the most accessible raids in the MMOs I have played (try vanilla WoW, where you needed a 40 man group, and had to progress through each raid first), and the fact people STILL complain about it boggles my mind.

If the problem is you can't find people to clear T5, then how will a nerf solve that? Or do you want T5 to be soloable now? You're telling me that your FC or LSes you are in won't help get a group together?

[wicked-one]

A whole lot of nothing in that post except OMG THEY DON'T AGREE WITH ME LET ME JUST CALL THEM A SLEW OF NAMES.

I was looking for words, thx you found them.


I really want to Quote myself from another Post, as this is how i feel about it

This my friend, i want to explain (from my PoV)

It's because of the time and effort (and of course emotions) I put into beating those Turns... it is not like a static goes in there, try 4-5 times and cake is eaten.
We managed to Down T9 last week for the first time, after weeks of frustrating wipes, over and over. Not to mention the Ton's of Gil burned away for Buffood and Repairs.
Also on a personal level, how many times your significant other was disappointed, because you sat staring at a screen until 3 o'clock instead of doing something with him/her...
You really sacrifice a lot for this.


So imagine you are a Sports Athlete, you train years of years, and achieve to set the World Record in Pole Vaulting. Now you retire and the year after your record get's vaporised because they now allow rocket-driven shoes ;-)

Of course, beating Coil it is a virtual achievment - not to be compared with professional Sports. But still, we feel betrayed by the fact that what we achieved now get's literally handed out on the silver plate, just because some do not have the endurance to do it the way it was designed for.

but as argues are in the Internet, people with that mindset will click like, those who havent will result in ... jeah, exactly the above.
never a mind was changed on an internet board, no matter how good your arguments are...

that last line should be my new signature ^^

[Tiggy]

How does someone completing content after it's been toned-down affect your having completed it at its hardest.. at all?

I do believe I've thoroughly explained that above. If you cared to read it.

If you read most of my threads you would see I personally have no issue with the way SE has chosen to slowly nerf the old content at all. A minor tweak to ADS, echo, and better gear were plenty in my opinion as they kept many of the mechanics in place. I have a problem who want it to be even easier than that so that anyone and their dog can face roll it. If new players don't have a progression system that slowly ramps up in difficulty we will see a situation where average game skill decreases unless you are someone actually tackling the harder content. The only content would be super easy or super hard. There will be no middle ground between easy and hard, and that will discourage people further and propagate an even more extreme skill gap than we already see today.

You won't hurt my ego by making the fights easier, but you may very well hurt the game and I do care about that.

It's about game balance and player expectations. Tsuwu's story above is a great example of what happens when people get carried through the content that was supposed to be a stepping stone. They get to tougher content, can't handle it, and then the cycle continues. You ask the raiders to "Try to step outside yourself and read some of the remarks here" but I ask of you to do the same thing. Stop thinking about the lowest common denominator for 1 second and actually consider the side effects on the community and this game. My argument never came from a place of personal achievement, ego, or elitism. Your broad strokes and generalizations just attempt to lump us all together simply because we raid and you try to brush us off as out of touch and self centered. Like we all sell runs or something. (AN ACT ME AND MY FC HAVE NEVER DONE THANK YOU VERY MUCH) I dislike your generalizations. I dislike how you lump us all together the bad and the good.

Why is it so impossible for people to make an argument without sweeping generalizations and insults? For the court Exhibit D. This many pages deep and the point still stands.

Many people from both sides argue their points very nicely and in a friendly way, but the ones that loose their temper and jump to insults the quickest tend to be from the non raiding camp. That's just my personal observation anyway.

Thanks for once again showing that the people with the shortest fuse tend to be the non-raiders.