Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[Tiggy]

Mistakes happen. That other thread has definitely gone more off the deep end than this one.

[Gilraen]

They just don't want it nerfed completely to the lowest common denominator...

And what IS the 'lowest common denominator'? Realize that, again, the end-game community is STILL a minority among the community as a whole. Especially the end-game community that adamantly opposes lessening of difficulties because 'reasons'. I've done near all of Turns 1-5 and people still have to be attentive, still have to be able to pull their weight more should things go south, and still need to be given pointers as to what to do. The Turns that have been nerfed haven't been 'nerfed into the ground' (is it so hard to silence ADS?!) Yes, once lethal mechanics can now be ignored, big deal! Is the end-game raiding ego so easily bruised that a slight lessening of difficulty in Coil will result in internal bleeding?

[Tiggy]

And what IS the 'lowest common denominator'?

They want tank and spank. Many people do want it to be that easy and they argue vehemently for it. These are the "Story mode" people who just want to watch cut scenes, or just don't have the skill it takes to beat it. (by their own admition in many posts)

My perspective comes entirely from a point of game balance. Not stroking my epeen, and It has nothing to do with any ego. I recently quit raiding a few weeks ago and have no intention of resuming until the expansion at the earliest. So please don't assume you know me, what I do, or what pleasures I get out of it.

If you read most of my threads you would see I personally have no issue with the way SE has chosen to slowly nerf the old content at all. A minor tweak to ADS, echo, and better gear were plenty in my opinion as they kept many of the mechanics in place. I have a problem who want it to be even easier than that so that anyone and their dog can face roll it. If new players don't have a progression system that slowly ramps up in difficulty we will see a situation where average game skill decreases unless you are someone actually tackling the harder content. The only content would be super easy or super hard. There will be no middle ground between easy and hard, and that will discourage people further and propagate an even more extreme skill gap than we already see today.

You won't hurt my ego by making the fights easier, but you may very well hurt the game and I do care about that.

Is the end-game raiding ego so easily bruised that a slight lessening of difficulty in Coil will result in internal bleeding?

Exhibit C.

[mythicrose]

..but you may very well hurt the game and I do care about that.

I've been largely silent on the forums but what you said is what I fear could happen. Between new 2.4 gear and echo, I hope SE doesn't ease up on the one shot mechanics much. My reasoning is that if the easements go too far (along with bloated ilevel and echo) people will clear the content with a false sense of accomplishment, head in to final coil, get roflstomped, and start demanding nerfs. I can understand those that don't like OHK or wipe mechanics, but they do help players learn more about their class, role, team work, and even own skills or lack thereof.

I hope in 3.0 raids are longer than 4 bosses per 6 months and have little to no "story" to be kept as difficult content for those that actually *want* difficult content. Implement story mode for those that just want to see what's there (also different bosses or just tank and spank so no one in progressive guilds can use it as practice mode).

Also, I'm frankly tired of how "casual", "hardcore", and "elite" get thrown around (not directed at you Tiggy). Even during progression for SCoB, my group would typically only go a couple hours per night three times a week. I know plenty of people that spend more time than that a given night watching TV or things on Youtube and Netflix.

Really, I'm not against people wanting to experience raids. I just don't SE to over simplify it with mechanic changes, new ilevel, and echo. Likely SE won't have a choice but to go that route. Hopefully future raids can avoid this fate by having little to no story.....after all, everyone eventually gets to the same item level as the "elites".

[Giantbane]

If we learn anything from savage that Yoshi-P wanted to provide a harder challenge is not many people seem willing to do it without rewards also in place so much for I do it for the challege part.

Eh, I don't know if you can say that. A bigger problem is that it shares the same lockout with normal coil. This can mess with an individual's ability to challenge savage coil because your normal coil group may not all want to do savage coil, and it may be harder to schedule savage coil attempts around your group's normal coil clears.

[RyujinUzikin]

They should simply divide coil in ilv. This way ppl can choose an easier coil vs the more challenging and better rewarding one.

And at the same time people who don't care much about doing it the hard way can see the story behind coil without waiting a long time to find a party that knows what they're doing.

Hell I haven't even tried to find one since ppl are too damn picky about having VC.

Pff!

[Ramen]

It kind of shows who the vocal minority are to me when the forums are littered with people whining about difficulty but when a fan gathering is held the true feelings are much more obvious.

I wonder how many percent of people can pass coil easily who are the vocal minority...
weird... I do not see coil2 gears everywhere tho...

[Xairos]

I think, just my opinion, that they could raise the visibility of certain mechanics as a form of the "nerf". For example show along the floor the pathing of T5 divebombs and an aggro arrow for the dreadknights. Maybe a small radial pulse for twisters?

Admittedly i know little of SCoB and if that would work there, but eh. Just tossing that out there. Personally I would rather do the fight at a decent strength and either clear it through overgear or overlevels. Oh and moving. I want to move and dodge too. But I can empathize with other players and how they progress.

[Zumi]

I seen so many people complain they don't want one hit kills and they claim it doesn't make the fights hard because its scripted. I check peoples profiles whenever they say coil isn't hard its scripted ect and they never had any coil achievements or gear. If its so "easy because its scripted", then why don't they do it?

Some how a tank and spank fight is the pinnacle of challenge.

They want tank and spank when you mess up don't die or wipe the raid but take a lot of damage or get a debuff that can be healed through. Basically what a lot of casual players want is a glorified CT. The ironic thing however is they complain about how CT is too easy, despite wanting the whole game to be basically tank and spank where mistakes mean you just heal a lot of damage up.

[Ooshima]

I seen so many people complain they don't want one hit kills and they claim it doesn't make the fights hard because its scripted. I check peoples profiles whenever they say coil isn't hard its scripted ect and they never had any coil achievements or gear. If its so "easy because its scripted", then why don't they do it?

Some how a tank and spank fight is the pinnacle of challenge.

They want tank and spank when you mess up don't die or wipe the raid but take a lot of damage or get a debuff that can be healed through. Basically what a lot of casual players want is a glorified CT. The ironic thing however is they complain about how CT is too easy, despite wanting the whole game to be basically tank and spank where mistakes mean you just heal a lot of damage up.

Tank and spank fights like T8, some players still deal shit DPS.

/just saying.