Cash shop confirmed

[TeaTimeBear]

I am seriously curious about what people are scared about. Can you give a few examples of items that might brake it?

I think the fear stems from past experience of playing F2P, or watching a cash shop start out as vanity then trickle into the P2W area. What items? Gear for example, stuff solely exclusive to the shop.

[Teryaani]

There's nothing that could "break" the game. But as for what we're worried about? Well go look at the OP, and my reasoning on the Odin mount.

Do we make this a drop, similar to the Extreme Primal mounts? Or do we put it into a cash shop?

They also will be shuffling some of these as veteran rewards as well. That's something that keeps crossing my mind too. It has absolutely next-to-no bearing on this discussion, but for some reason that's been bouncing around in my head.


The problem is that we have what looks like two (maybe three - apathy is a camp) camps of people.

1) Those that lean toward SE putting anything and everything good that is vanity in the cash store.
2) Those that hold a wait and see attitude, or possibly even a hope or expectation that SE won't do this.

I fall into the 2nd camp and here's why: SE has had this in the works for some time and they still released a large amount of vanity pets and mogs into the game when they could have withheld it. I still have hope that they will keep making emotes, and makeup, and minions, and mounts available in game.

Until SE pulls another housing and does something crappy with the store, I will hold out hope that they will remain a good actor in this. I understand why others feel differently, but that's how I am.

You know what separates the veteran rewards from the cash shop items? That the former is an account upgrade. Once you get a veteran reward tier, you get it for all your characters, that is past, present, and future.

<cough>

It has absolutely next-to-no bearing on this discussion

Part of Saeedaisspecial's post is commenting that this is a development decision that has to be made. When thinking through that statement the thought "sure, those or as a veteran reward I guess" kept coming up in head. To prevent this thought from becoming sentient and taking over my frontal lobe, I typed it out and included a statement basically stating that it was a non-sequitor.

But hey! Thanks for picking out the completely non-salient point there RaddCuban. Thumbs up!

I brought it up because several times through out the discussion the CE and the digital CE upgrade have been brought up as being basically the same as a cash shop when they are not. Demonizing account upgrades by conflating them with Cash Shop purchases, something that also applies to the promotional codes on merchandise, is something that has been bugging me through out this thread, the entirety of which I've read.

Freaking post limit.

The problem with what you picked out is that it's none of the things you mentioned above. You cherry picked a non sequitor and ignored the part of the post that contained the point.

To your point:

I completely disagree. The collectors edition and merch with in game items are exactly the same as a cash shop item. You have handed SE money for something, in game, that is over an above your sub amount. Whether or not it's a better value is subjective, but IT'S THE EXACT SAME THING.

When the fat chocobo came out, the cries in Mor Dhona of "BRB, grabbing CE for the mount" were incessant. Those people bought the CE for an in game item. They paid extra for a mount. Whether or not it's a better value as it applies to all of your characters or not is completely irrelevant. People paid above the sub price for an in game item.

[Starlord]

I think the fear stems from past experience of playing F2P, or watching a cash shop start out as vanity then trickle into the P2W area. What items? Gear for example, stuff solely exclusive to the shop.

Well there are reasons not to be totally scared:

1) Square Enix has ALOT more money than all the other MMOs that were once P2P then went to F2P ( because they simply lacked the funds and needed to recoup)
2) FFXI is still P2P for 11+ years, as long as that game stay P2P, FFXIV will follow suit. ( It's more of a Marketing Formula for them concerning MMO's in general it seems.
3) They have both FFXI and FFXIV as money flowing into the company, so the chances of SE going to the F2P route is VERY slim. MMOs only go to F2P route when once a P2P game is if the game is not sustaining itself ( and the company not having the funds to keep it a P2P game).

I don't like the idea of a cash shop, but I don't think it will ever go F2P nor the cash shop will ever go the P2W route ( in a p2p game?) Never heard of a game to do that while under the P2P tag.

[RaddCuban]

They also will be shuffling some of these as veteran rewards as well. That's something that keeps crossing my mind too. It has absolutely next-to-no bearing on this discussion, but for some reason that's been bouncing around in my head.

You know what separates the veteran rewards from the cash shop items? That the former is an account upgrade. Once you get a veteran reward tier, you get it for all your characters, that is past, present, and future.

[Laf]

so... subs dropped that low?

[Jaybot]

I wonder how many people will unsubscribe, I had a couple friends tell me they weren't going to renew next month because of it.

[RaddCuban]

I wonder how many people will unsubscribe, I had a couple friends tell me they weren't going to renew next month because of it.

I've already cancelled my recurring subscription. I still have a large amount of paid game time that I will make full use of, as I buy my time in the 180 days chunks, but unless the state of affairs changes over the course of that time that shall be it.

Part of Saeedaisspecial's post is commenting that this is a development decision that has to be made. When thinking through that statement the thought "sure, those or as a veteran reward I guess" kept coming up in head. To prevent this thought from becoming sentient and taking over my frontal lobe, I typed it out and included a statement basically stating that it was a non-sequitor.

But hey! Thanks for picking out the completely non-salient point there RaddCuban. Thumbs up!

I brought it up because several times through out the discussion the CE and the digital CE upgrade have been brought up as being basically the same as a cash shop when they are not. Demonizing account upgrades by conflating them with Cash Shop purchases, something that also applies to the promotional codes on merchandise, is something that has been bugging me through out this thread, the entirety of which I've read.

[Fyrebrand]

so subs dropped that low?

The last stats I heard about FFXIV were that it has over 2 million subscribers. Just imagine how much money they are raking in, from that. I know there are some people from 1.0 who are paying a lower subscription fee, but on average most players pay between $13 to $15 per month (and much of that paid months in advance for veteran rewards). Let's be conservative and just assume there no more than a flat 2 million people paying $13/month each:

2,000,000 x $13 = Twenty-Six Million Dollars PER MONTH in revenue (not including any initial game purchases, fantasias, or other services)

And people tell me "the subscription model isn't viable anymore," or "the cash shop is a great way for fans to help support the game." Please. Your subscription money is plenty enough to support FFXIV for a long time coming, as it was for FFXI. The cash shop is not some last-ditch effort to save FFXIV from oblivion; it is a superfluous, greed-driven ploy to tarnish the value you get for your sub money and gouge you for extra cash on top of it.

EDIT: My mistake, it was 2 million "registered accounts," not necessarily active subscribers. There seem to be no solid stats on current active subscriptions, but I believe Yoshi-P has commented that they get an average of 500,000 account log-ins per day. However, it's not as if every player is logs in 7 days a week, without exception. You pay your monthly sub, whether you log in every day or not. Some people only log in a few times per week, or even 1-2 times. So, somewhere around 2 million subscribers does not seem that far-fetched. Plus, keep in mind I was low-balling the subscription amount to a standard $13/month. Some pay more than that, based on their sub setup or if they pay extra for more than one character per server (I do). Then there are optional paid services like fantasias, server transfer, or the recent HD stream of the Fan Fest. The point is, they are making crazy money off this game.

[Ramen]

the moment when I decided to leave XI was when they are selling more and more Add-on contents while there are nothing more to do in the game.
I am going to boycott this cash shop.

[Laf]

The last stats I heard about FFXIV were that it has over 2 million subscribers. Just imagine how much money they are raking in, from that. I know there are some people from 1.0 who are paying a lower subscription fee, but on average most players pay between $13 to $15 per month (and much of that paid months in advance for veteran rewards). Let's be conservative and just assume there no more than a flat 2 million people paying $13/month each:

2,000,000 x $13 = Twenty-Six Million Dollars PER MONTH in revenue (not including any initial game purchases, fantasias, or other services)

Sigh... It was registered accounts or created characters, not subs.