Cash shop confirmed

[Lux_Rayna]

Merchandise is not game content, I don't understand why you would even compare the two. I sub to play the game, not to get posters.

That's just it...you say there's a difference but there really isn't one. An ingame costume is as much "merchandise" as a cosplay piece in a retail store. Either way you are dealing with an item that has no bearing on gameplay.

[Ladon]

I would like to hazard a guess and throw this out there that a few of those who are against the cash shop aren't against it because of what it is, rather what it could represent: SE making an mmo to be popular instead of trying to be different. Buck the trend. Swim upstream... what have you.

I am fine with the shop, but that is because after playing 2.0 I realized that SE was moving towards trying to make a popular mmo that has slight differences from your average WoW clone.

Yoshi looked at what makes a mmo popular in today's market and tried to make somewhat of a compromise. I hate wow, but i will admit, it has some good ideas on accessibility and how they present their content. In my youth I would have adamantly argued for SE to sink and be different rather than change and try to find some workable medium.

Also, I admit to getting the CE upgrade (digital because i was impatient) just for the minions and the mount and the gear. But this was after getting the 2.0 for free because I had 1.0.

Are you sitting here trying to rationalize that the existence of a cash shop is going to make a game more popular? That there are that many people that are on the fence where they'll decide to start subscribing because they can pay another few bucks to get an item in the game instead of playing the game and getting the item?

Personally I am trying to rationalize why anyone except someone that holds stock in Square-Enix, Inc would be accepting of a cash shop. The only other idea I have is it's some sort of twisted form of battered wife syndrome.

There is no rational reason to be happy about paying extra for an item that could be put in the game for free. You are already supporting SE with a monthly subscription fee. If for some reason you feel that you are not paying SE enough for their services, the do actually take donations and you'd actually get a tax write-off.

[Vhailor]

For some reason, adding merchandise inside of a game causes people to go up in arms. If we were to take that same coolDRG vanity armor and sell it outside of the game as a cosplay piece, you guys would be all over it! Why the difference?

I think there are two core reasons for this difference. One is the feeling that, when buying a game or subscribing to a title, one should be getting the "complete" official package. People don't like the idea that they're "missing" access to certain pieces of official content. I also think that many feel that games, MMOs included, should provide an "equal footing" for people, independent of wealth in real life. After all, we have to put up with uneven economic footing in every other aspect of life - why should our entertainment be infested with it as well?

Edit / Addition:

Personally I am trying to rationalize why anyone except someone that holds stock in Square-Enix, Inc would be accepting of a cash shop. The only other idea I have is it's some sort of twisted form of battered wife syndrome.

This is a little bit naive. Casual gamers with day jobs who have larger chunks of spare income would almost certainly prefer spending a few extra bucks for quick reward than putting even a dozen hours into the game. After all, many people play MMOs to interact with friends and goof around - to them, it is quite likely that "barriers" to content requiring hours invested into the title are an annoyance, rather than good design. World of Warcraft became the mega-hit that it is by appealing to this crowd; SE is attempting to emulate its success.

[Xairos]

Are you sitting here trying to rationalize that the existence of a cash shop is going to make a game more popular? That there are that many people that are on the fence where they'll decide to start subscribing because they can pay another few bucks to get an item in the game instead of playing the game and getting the item?

I am not trying to rationalize anything in saying that the game will be more popular. It is already popular given that there are threads and threads and pages and pages of topics like this on this site. Back in the FF11 days, I had Killing Ifrit for all my news and the only multi-page threads i saw there were people calling out other players for linkshell drama.

I am saying from the get-go of 2.0 the goal was to make a more visible, popular FFMMO. One part of that change is that our voices to have a chance to change things. I mean look at how SE is thinking about nerfing coil. I bet you that came mostly from these forums.

[Moqi]

That's just it...you say there's a difference but there really isn't one. An ingame costume is as much "merchandise" as a cosplay piece in a retail store. Either way you are dealing with an item that has no bearing on gameplay.

And the piece of cake I ate before has no bearing on gameplay either. What are you even trying to say?

Seriously. Hey, I like this game => here's my sub money to play it => thanks for the content you made with the money I gave you.

Where does merchandise fit in all this? Nowhere, because it has nothing to do with the game. I'm honestly trying to understand what you're trying to say but... it's not making any sense. I just told you why it's not the same thing. Everything outside of game content has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself, its subs, its cash shop, or any discussion about it. You pay a sub to access game content, not a cosplay piece in a retail store.

[Lux_Rayna]

snip

Well here's the reality: the subscription model is no longer effective due to a saturated market. A game will not generate the revenue it needs to on a sub-only model in this day and age. It just won't happen unless its extraordinarily superior to everything else. The fact of the matter is that cash shops generate more revenue. People like going to the store and buying things that other ppl can't. Its human nature, and one major reason we still have shopping malls. Since my interest is in the game, I am in favor of whatever will keep the game both enjoyable and alive.

The benefit of cash shops are that: (a) more content can be released (b) more revenue has a positive impact on the game (c) more diversity/customization. These are all wins to me.

[Ladon]

I am not trying to rationalize anything in saying that the game will be more popular. It is already popular given that there are threads and threads and pages and pages of topics like this on this site. Back in the FF11 days, I had Killing Ifrit for all my news and the only multi-page threads i saw there were people calling out other players for linkshell drama.

I am saying from the get-go of 2.0 the goal was to make a more visible, popular FFMMO.

Yes and that is exactly what I addressed. What logic is there behind that concept that tacking on a cash shop is going to make the game more popular?

You might have an argument if say they planned to open the cash shop then lower the monthly subscription cost a few bucks as a result therefore lowering the entry cost of playing the game, therefore possibly attracting more players.

Except they are not doing that. So this idea that they are going to attract more players by inciting them to spend even more money than before is completely absurd.

This is a little bit naive. Casual gamers with day jobs who have larger chunks of spare income would almost certainly prefer spending a few extra bucks for quick reward than putting even a dozen hours into the game. After all, many people play MMOs to interact with friends and goof around - to them, it is quite likely that "barriers" to content requiring hours invested into the title are an annoyance, rather than good design. World of Warcraft became the mega-hit that it is by appealing to this crowd; SE is attempting to emulate its success.

If their actual goal was to attract more casual players, you know what they would actually do? Put in a vendor in the game that gives these items out at no additional cost.

This entire line of thinking is dumb. They aren't trying to attract more players with a cash shop. They are trying to make more money off of you, the current player. That is the only goal of the cash shop, and you are a fool if you actually accept it.

Well here's the reality: the subscription model is no longer effective due to a saturated market. A game will not generate the revenue it needs to on a sub-only model in this day and age. It just won't happen unless its extraordinarily superior to everything else. The fact of the matter is that cash shops generate more revenue. People like going to the store and buying things that other ppl can't. Its human nature, and one major reason we still have shopping malls. Since my interest is in the game, I am in favor of whatever will keep the game both enjoyable and alive.

The benefit of cash shops are that: (a) more content can be released (b) more revenue has a positive impact on the game (c) more diversity/customization. These are all wins to me.

I'd really like to understand your claim that the sub-only model can't support the game due to saturation. Again this makes little sense.

1) Costs of maintaining a service go down, not up. At worse they will remain the same. The infrastructure is already in place and they are able to re-use a whole lot of assets. Subscription fees cover maintenance and continual development. Yoshi-P even provided a very good breakdown of this when he explained why FF14 was to be a subscription based game to being with.

2) They are charging for expansions, therefore the cost of development is covered by expansions initial sales revenue. This is where most of the major content is going to come from and where most of the costs will be.

Bottom line is they don't need cash shop revenue to maintain the status quo or to provide new content. Subscription fees and expansion revenue cover this without needing to hurt the integrity of the game.

[Vhailor]

I appreciate the detailed response, Preypacer - a couple of notes, though I agree with most of it.

People are going to complain about things being too slow no matter what. If someone thinks something should take an hour, and it takes three, they're going to complain about it being too long of a grind. Welcome to the modern MMO genre.

No matter how far SE goes, or what they do, it's not going to be enough, and people are still going to be pissed off.

I agree in principle, though I think in many notable cases (the rarity of Primal horses, ATMA, etc.) they've clearly failed to hit anything remotely close to a reasonable rate. There will never be something that's perfect for everyone, but there's a broad grey area that's acceptable to the majority, and they can at the least do a better job in hitting that.

Well, any hope of appealing to a more select audience was gone the moment Yoshi-P decided on the new direction for the game. That decision has been underscored increasingly with various changes and additions to the game, the cash shop being the latest, but probably not last example.

I agree, which is why I unsubbed months ago. The reason I am disappointed for this announcement is that frequently, MMOs shift from "attracting" mode to "retention" mode when they release their first expansion. The announcement of a cash shop clearly indicated to me that the approach wouldn't be changing with the release of Heavensward, which is a shame in my eyes.

As for the community, eh... community isn't something you can "control". Community is the collective sum of many individuals acting of their own accord, personalities, behavior, etc. It's not some single, malleable blob to be shaped and formed according to players' wishes. May as well try herding cats.

In a certain sense, you're right; no company can precisely control its community. They can influence it broadly, though. Deep mechanics with relatively steep learning curves, for instance, tend to attract more serious gamers and fewer casual types. Subscription fees tend to result in higher community continuity - i.e., people willing to embrace a P2P model are less likely to disappear and reappear frequently. A strong emphasis on vanity, including cash shops, appeals to players for whom looking pretty is just as much of an objective as acquiring end-game gear and embracing challenging content. When taken in combination, I think these actually have a powerful impact on who plays a title. You'll always have plenty of exceptions to the rule, of course.

Now, as for the compromise bit.. I mention that it's the best possible compromise I can imagine. I would much rather have no cash shop at all, outsie of character or account services (name/server/race/gender change, etc). However, knowing that the cash shop is there, and is going to be there no matter how loudly people protest (the OP of this thread could get 2000 likes, and it won't matter... it's a done deal), the best compromise we can hope for is to allow those who don't want to deal with it at all the option of completing content in-game to obtain those items, so they don't have to.

Under the circumstances, I would be perfectly okay with that.

Fair enough. For those willing to compromise in the first place, I completely agree on this point.

Edit / Addition:

If their actual goal was to attract more casual players, you know what they would actually do? Put in a vendor in the game that gives these items out at no additional cost.

This entire line of thinking is dumb. They aren't trying to attract more players with a cash shop. They are trying to make more money off of you, the current player. That is the only goal of the cash shop, and you are a fool if you actually accept it.

You clearly haven't read my previous opinions, and being rude gives a bad name to everyone who is opposed to the cash shop.

What you clearly missed is that there is a degree of relativity involved in attracting new players. You're right that offering vanity items for free would attract more new players than a cash shop, but a cash shop will likely help to retain or attract more new players than doing nothing at all. Not only that, but it will have the added benefit of "dragging out" vanity content for casual players, thereby helping with retention, and also making SE some extra money in the process.

You're acting like goals are one-dimensional rather than multifaceted, which is a rather ignorant perspective to have.

[Moqi]

I doubt they'd let this game bleed money for a year before introducing a cash shop because it's not generating the revenues it should've, especially after the failure of 1.0

I support this game already with my sub. If they are not able to manage development costs with what I give them, tough luck, it's their problem, not mine. They're not entitled (look! I can use it too) to more money from me just because they can't do their job.

[Tupsi]

Even they don't rip out past items and place them up for ridiculous amounts of money.

Hm?



These...don't look ripped out to me..and didn't when I went to the CS.

(Inb4 someone tries to argue against it by predicting the future.)

Btw: They stated they put them on NPCs to allow people who didn't play 1.x to get the items - Most of the event items you see came from 1.0 and were only offered once a year, meaning one year it was yukatas the other it was swimsuits.