SP nerfed. We were lied to.

[Kensei]

Hmmm I am going to re-read it and get back to you, but I seem to remember the OP talking about soloing in subsequent posts, and since yoshi said leves were going to be the method of gaining solo exp, I wouldn't be shocked if the OP was upset that they now suck for SP.

They definitely are terrible now. I was doing leves in BW and getting 1.6-1.8k per leve. Each one taking well over 15 minutes to finish. Every single way of obtaining SP pre-patch was nerfed and you can verify yourself or ask around in your server.

[Xmbei]

Agreed. The only ones complaining were the clans because they felt unimportant, since everyone could get the gear they had with effort and thinking. Now they can start rmt and overpricing gear. That's what they want SE! can't you see that? We almost didn't have those problems here, and whoever was doing that, wasn't making any money since people even solo, could get somewhere. Now, it's all in the hands of little mafia again. Why do every single MMO have to turn out like this? Can't you see that 70% of your userbase are casual gamers!?

wow... just wow... so let me get this straight.... by your logic anyone that is in a guild/ls/clan is a RMTer? wow..... just wow....

[Xmbei]

You mean botters right? Us legit are far away from getting lvl 50 in all classes.

ah again with your name calling... folks because Noir said so everyone that is r50 is a botter and everyone in a party/ls/clan/guild is an RMTer. Must be true because Noir said it!

[Kensei]

Pot, meet kettle.

You've made assertions. You haven't backed up any of them with actual data or numbers. You haven't even attempted to. Your arguments basically amount to, "this is how it is, because I say it is".

By comparison, from the other side has been post, after post, after post, after post, after post from people (with far more time and hands-on experience in the game than you in some cases, incidentally) providing actual numbers of what they gain in terms of xp per hour.

Those people have asked you if your rate in Behests have matched theirs. From what I've seen, you've failed to meet a single one of them. Instead, you ignore direct challenges and keep cherry-picking statements that are "easy targets".

From where I'm sitting, reading all the back and forth, I'm seeing a lot of actual data being provided by those on one side, and a whole lot of unsupported assertions being made on yours.

Seems to me like you've got no argument, you're out-classed by people with more hands-on experience with the game and better data to back it up... and you know it. But, for whatever reason, you won't accept it, and continue to cling to your talking points... all so you can accuse Yoshi of lying to you.

Tsk. Tsk.

If you're going to make an assertion, especially with as much vehemence as you are, you should be prepared to back it up. Others have backed up their claims. You have failed, repeatedly, to back up yours. And, no, repeating the same thing over and over is not "backing it up".

This isn't about me choosing sides. I tend to lean toward what ever side has the more solid case and provides the best supporting data. In this case, it ain't you. If you had come in here showing data that backed up your claims... it'd be a whole different story.

If you are playing the same game I am you wouldn't need proof because you would have already experienced it when you played after the patch. All the assertions I have made can be verified if you just log in and do a leve, join a behest, or simply kill a mob. They have also been backed up by many other poster. If you want to continue to ignore that go ahead but don't say I don't back up my claims.

How has the data those you worship been backed up other than their claims? All the numbers they have provided are because they say so. My statements can be verified if you simply log in and compare SP gains versus pre-patch. Why do you ignore every other poster with the same issues I have mentioned?

I do not cherry pick. I just won't keep beating the dead horse. If you have been reading every post I have been having to repeat myself a lot. Every statement they make can be answered with something I have posted several times before. Many other posters have posted their experiences pre-patch and post-patch and their numbers are very similar to what I had previously stated. Again the one cherry picking is you who apparently hasn't seen a single other person post other than myself and those you for some reason decided were right.

How would you know their data is actual? Oh that's right. You don't.

Nobody has outclassed me. What does them having Ranks 40s or 50s have to do with all the nerfs that, again, can be verified if you just log in and actually play? They themselves have said behest was too easy/fast. Meaning that indeed SP gains were nerfed which means Yoshi lied which is the whole point. Had Yoshi not made that statement this thread wouldn't exist.

The problem is that their data is the one that is "because they say so". My claims only require you log in and play. You keep mentioning how you chose their side because they had the better argument? That's pathetic. You are effectively taking it on faith. Way to get credibility.

[Kensei]

You are one dense . . . individual. We have provided proof to refute your claims, but you ignore it because only you feel your point is valid. You are a fool.

What proof? Your stories about how much SP you get now? So I should consider those claims fact because they say so? Please. I don't reply to the people who keep bringing stuff up that I have already answered to them in many previous posts. Many of those on your side agreed that SP gains were slower because ranking up was easy and too fast. That's great except Yoshi said ranking up as it was in 1.17c wouldn't be nerfed and it was.

[Kensei]

Instead of the Pavlovian pleasure-trigger of just hitting another rank, I find the fighting is more tactical now, and quite more rewarding... If it moves slowly, so does chess. And--to me, mind you--it's more satisfying to play now. Definitely more so than the addict-prone series of activities that represented "ranking up" before. Let me hope it moves even more in that direction. Other than that, I'm sure the current status of the SP ratio and other such things are far from being final. It's been plainly stated through interviews and letters: The battle system is not done yet.

Having said this, allow me to vent a bit, out of exasperation:

There are some people that play this game as though it were a race (to nowhere, BTW,) and I fail to understand what the purpose of their rush is. What exactly will you accomplish when you cap all your jobs, while the game really is not near having any sort of endgame yet? You're just reflexively carrying the compulsion from your behavior in other games to this one. Adrenaline addiction is fine, but man! You do get adrenaline running easily!

FFXIV is currently an open Beta Test, not a commercial product ready to be enjoyed in most of its aspects. SE has plainly acknowledged this. Furthermore, we're all beta-testers, and we really should only be hanging around because (some of us for bizarre reasons) we like being a part of this process. It definitely shouldn't be because the game is in any sort of way finished, or we expect it to be so now.

Help out with your constructive criticism, and once and for all cut it out with the entitlement attitude. If this game had failed--and it could very well have done so, if it weren't because of us, the optimists--you, the destructive complainers who would've caused it to fail, would've all lost the few dollars you paid for the license to play it. End of story.

If you don't like what's going on, please assume it did fail, and leave. Let us, the constructive bunch, do what we're really enjoying here, which is helping the game get somewhere. If by relaunch time the game fails, you can laugh at what you will call our folly. Even despite our assertion that we are having fun right now. If it doesn't fail, rest assured we will be too busy having even more fun then, for even thinking of laughing at you.

This is not a rant against people that criticize the game. However, people that criticize can do so destructively, while some others take good care to do it constructively. If you don't know in which group you are, you are most likely in the first one. And yes, this rant is addressed at you. (For starters, stop using the word "suck," and learn a few more verbs and a few adjectives as well. It's your mother tongue, for crying out loud--and not mine by the way-- but you wouldn't know it from the care you fail to bestow it.)

You, the smug, destructive non-achievers that constitute the chorus of game-addicts that most complain, and are perpetually indignant because you don't have your fix NOW: You behave as if you never committed a mistake in your lives. The arrogance of your criticism reaches pathetic dimensions in front of the sad reality that, if you were in charge of developing this, and I say this without pause, the game would have failed already. Most worthwhile projects became worthwhile only because the people behind them found an enlightened way of detonating the learning potential within mistakes, but more importantly, because they had the daring to take action and make those mistakes. Also, because they had the patience and perseverance to fix them.

If such mistakes are committed moving forward in the development of this game, they are only condemnable if they lead to no improvement. The only way to move FFXIV at this juncture is by the good old scientific method, the trusty system of trial and ERROR.

I'm sticking with the game, because I think, and I could be deluded (but so could you,) that SE has better intentions and, so far, better procedures in dire straits than many companies would have had in similar circumstances. Something in their attitude has earned them my respect (and it certainly wasn't their savoir-faire with PC game development.) If you don't see this, maybe you shouldn't be here, more for your own good than for anything else.

The game is not ready, and it's not going to be for a while. So, stay, vigilant and critical, yes! But help pick up the pieces, or just get the fuck out of the way.

Rutelor.

For the hundredth time, the point I'm making is Yoshi lied. End of story. if you are pleased with the direction the game has taken why are you minding those of us with negative experiences.

[Raze]

What proof? Your stories about how much SP you get now? So I should consider those claims fact because they say so? Please. I don't reply to the people who keep bringing stuff up that I have already answered to them in many previous posts. Many of those on your side agreed that SP gains were slower because ranking up was easy and too fast. That's great except Yoshi said ranking up as it was in 1.17c wouldn't be nerfed and it was.

Sorry dude, but your argument is basically that xping is impossible to do without suffering terrrrrible penalties. Since you can't prove something is impossible by definition, your argument is really thin. Don't start asking for proof if you can't give any yourself.

As Samuel Jackson said: "The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

[Kensei]

Sorry dude, but your argument is basically that xping is impossible to do without suffering terrrrrible penalties. Since you can't prove something is impossible by definition, your argument is really thin. Don't start asking for proof if you can't give any yourself.

That's not my argument at all. My argument is that Yoshi lied by saying that ranking up wouldn't be nerfed and it was. How is that hard to understand?

[SuzakuCMX]

That's not my argument at all. My argument is that Yoshi lied by saying that ranking up wouldn't be nerfed and it was. How is that hard to understand?

No it wasn't.

Do more than just behests and leves.

[Raze]

That's not my argument at all. My argument is that Yoshi lied by saying that ranking up wouldn't be nerfed and it was. How is that hard to understand?

Then prove it with empirical evidence, as many people who have made a counterpoint to yours have done. You going out and getting crappy SP isn't proof of anything but that you wasted 60+ pages of forum posts with QQing.