about egi's models

[Exstal]

If I were the Producer, I would only listen to viable solutions to actual problems. I wouldn't go back, or at least try not, and fix something that wasn't broken in the first place lest I create more problems. Also, vocal minority is what forums are. That's simply how it works. If I could read French or German, I'd go take a look at their sub forums and see if they complain about the same things we do. The Japanese don't so that's already a chunk of the playerbase that doesn't vocalize the same issues that we do.

For example, there are no Atma complaint threads on the Japanese forums.

Edit: A quick browse through their threads at 5:24 EDT, nothing on the first 3 pages of General Discussion about ACN or SMN and in DPS sub-forum has one thread who was started on the English forums by Spellbinder that hasn't seen a reply since 9-15-2014.

[Renik]

snip

Vocal minority is just an internet term, it has the value of a theory, so it's not an absolute, unless you can show us real numbers none of us is wrong, you can say if the other regions are or not complaining, but you can't say if they are fully pleased with the appearance, or if they would mind about a change, not everything enters in conflict with what the players not using the forums want, and even less if the only thing the dev team have to do is create a minion like model.

Anyway, if you think the other regions feedback is more valuable, well, there have been complains about the heavy mechanic driven combat everywhere, and SE keeps refusing to tell us if there are some changes planed in the future, stop treating them like gods, because the way they work makes them ignore most of the feedback, in most cases a single person is in charge of a decision.

Also i don't know how the other forums do, but the jp forums tend to make a thread once to give feedback and forget about it, i'm sure there's a thread about egis design somewhere.

most

adjective \ˈmōst\ : almost all : the majority of
: greatest in amount or degree

(i snipped the only truth in your post)

I have seen enough analyzers like you to know that discussing with you is a waste, so i'm not even using a forum post, just gonna tell you, your post is as theoretical as mine, you can make all the numbers you want, but if there's only an absolute fact, it is that we don't know what the players out of the forums think about it, i can only state the opinions of the people i know or i have talked with.

[Dwill]

(i snipped the only truth in your post)

I have seen enough analyzers like you to know that discussing with you is a waste, so i'm not even using a forum post, just gonna tell you, your post is as theoretical as mine, you can make all the numbers you want, but if there's only an absolute fact, it is that we don't know what the players out of the forums think about it, i can only state the opinions of the people i know or i have talked with.

It's pretty hilarious that you dismiss my entire post because you don't like it and not because it's incorrect. You can't even provide one decent argument to support your point of view so in the end, thank you for proving me that you've got no legs to stand on in this debate.

By the way, because you don't like the numbers, it doesn't mean they are made up. But it's okay, keep on thinking that 10s of thousands of people agree with you if it makes you sleep at night.

I think this is OP's first.

And with his choice of words, more than likely his/her last.

[Alukah]

I like the size of egis, but that design really has to go, the current design looks very unprofessional.

[Renik]

snip

I did but your mind is unable to get it, it happens a lot in these forums, ppl ask for reasons, you give them, they read what they want and make their own interpretation. You may think your numbers are correct, but you're wrong, first, not everyone listed as a smn is a smn and not everyone listed as something else is a "non smn", this is your first mistake. The second is claiming we are minority, because only those who complain are in the forums; there are several reasons to register in these forums, first, if you want to post or like a post, if not, you just read w/o registering, theorycrafting, feedback, some will just come to rant a bit but they are far from being a majority, if i had to say who are the real vocal minority, i would say, anyone who likes forums, in other words, darama lovers, white knights and trolls, those are the real vocal minority, and they have little or nothing to do with the game, they just enjoy, opposing, correcting grammar, analyzing posts to counter them with nosesnse.

I will admit, the op is ranting, and she/he is not acting correctly, but that doesn't makes his/her point invalid, and i will go further, the reaction of the op is understandable, the OP looks like a firstimer in the forums, is not used to treating with the stress the people like you cause in others.

Before you say something about not being reasons to support my stance in my post.

- Your numbers are wrong.
- You are not majority here nor in the game.
- You used semantics and wrong numbers to invalidate my point instead of posting your opinion about the topic.
- This is a FF game, and FF fans are used to more detailed summons, i understand the size issue tho, a reduced size is needed for an MMO like this one.
- I said i have talked with a lot of ppl about this inside of the game, and even if the wrong bases made up in these forums tell you that a very reduced portion of the playerbase is not important, it's indeed a scaled representation of a whole group.
- Since the launch of SMN, there have been complains, from SMNs, yes those who play the job, a portion of the playerbase who sees this bad design as an issue, and want to register and post in the forums, in other words, a "scaled representation of a whole group."

And my final point, that i will define as a personal attack to ppl like you, whenever a feedback thread is made, i can recognize some names, people who post repeatedly on a thread trying to invalidate other's opinion making them look like a minority, and liking the posts of those with the same destructive mentality, but in the end, a vast majority supports positively the feedback threads, the reason they look like a minority is because they post an opinion and leave. Don't get me wrong, there are real opposers as well, but they do the same, post an opinion and leave.

If you were really saying the truth you would just post your opinion and leave, instead of attacking ppl with the overused statement of the vocal minority, semantics and made up or wrong numbers, leave your opinion here and let the devs and the real community decide.

[Dwill]

Snip

I just love how you say the numbers are wrong when you either willingly or just skimmed over this part:

Last I checked, there was 300,000+ level 50 Arcanists. Let's be pessimist and say only a fourth are summoner, which makes 75,000 summoners.

No matter how much you repeat it, the numbers are there and they aren't on your side.

You also said:

Most people is not pleased with the SMN job as a whole, we have these threads everyday.

We already clarified that Most = majority and we've already established that you've got zero, zéro, cero, nada, rei, ling, form of data to back up such a claim therefore it is an invalid claim. At least my claims at least has some form of data to back it up. Anecdotal evidences (such has talking to people in game) are also nigh-worthless because they are an easily malleable and biased form of data. So unless you magically stumble upon data that would support your point of view, you are indeed part of a vocal minority.

Your whole argument is based on my numbers being wrong yet you have no way of proving as much and you repeating over and over they are doesn't make it true by any stretch of the imagination.

If you were really saying the truth you would just post your opinion and leave, instead of attacking ppl with the overused statement of the vocal minority, semantics and made up or wrong numbers, leave your opinion here and let the devs and the real community decide.

The real community seems awfully familiar. Though, I will admit that it's quite funny to see you call me on semantics when your posts are filled with fallacies.

[Renik]

snip

guess what, part of the purpose of my post was a bait, to know if you're insane enough to be in these forums for more than 12h w/o resting, and you passed it, this proves, why a person like you have zero credibility, i have explained why your numbers are wrong, i have explained why i think most people is not pleased with the design of the egis, and you keep trying to impose your wrong data an opinions calling mines a "lie" with nothing more to backup your stance than your impulsive "naysaying."

I'll stop it here, i really hate using the forums the way you make me do it, ppl like you just make me sic and i can't avoid being a trolling-counter troll.

Edit: Dwill, please ignore me from now because you have been placed on my ignore list and i won't be seeing any of your posts.

[Dwill]

Couldn't agree more Dwill name pops up in every thread of some make about smn just look at his post history. Almost like he trolls any post that wants any change to smn. Anyway I for see changes to sch/smn come 3.0 when you can take 8 sch in a 8 man trail and win with easy something is wrong. SE biggest problem was they need to make the game have a more FF feel at 2.0 and putting smn at lunch help but they also needed a second healer what we end up with was rushed smn and sch should have never branch off same class. I personally don't think we will see anther 2 job that branch off class.

Disagrees with something I agree with = must be a troll. Flawless logic.

guess what, part of the purpose of my post was a bait, to know if you're insane enough to be in these forums for more than 12h w/o resting, and you passed it, this proves, why a person like you have zero credibility, i have explained why your numbers are wrong, i have explained why i think most people is not pleased with the design of the egis, and you keep trying to impose your wrong data an opinions calling mines a "lie" with nothing more to backup your stance than your impulsive "naysaying."

I'll stop it here, i really hate using the forums the way you make do it, ppl like you just make me sic and i can't avoid being a trolling-counter troll.

Why am I not surprised to see you resort to Ad Hominem without even knowing me in real life. Well, in the end, that just shows that you really had no leg to stand on. Good job on discrediting yourself with your endless sea of fallacies. By the way, this might be useful to you since it still seems that you haven't learned its meaning.

No idea where you got your percents from, but i think it'd be the othe way around. Not sure why anyone would even argue about making them look better. But whatever makes you sleep better i suppose.

<1% of the playerbase posts on the forums. Not even the whole forum agrees that they should change. I've never seen nor heard of anyone complaining about the egis in game so while 1% seems lowish, it's not a far fetched number.

[ereskigal]

Couldn't agree more Dwill name pops up in every thread of some make about smn just look at his post history. Almost like he trolls any post that wants any change to smn. Anyway I for see changes to sch/smn come 3.0 when you can take 8 sch in a 8 man trail and win with easy something is wrong. SE biggest problem was they need to make the game have a more FF feel at 2.0 and putting smn at lunch help but they also needed a second healer what we end up with was rushed smn and sch should have never branch off same class. I personally don't think we will see anther 2 job that branch off class.