Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[Aegis]

You can't find a difference between them.
As stated multiple times in the thread, what you think is a fact is just your own opinion.

People may agree with you, and people may not. And as you are now well aware after 16 pages, a lot of people disagree with you.
You expressed your opinion, people answered and you now know that you are the minority.

You say "I think classes are too similar", people say "no, they're not".
That's it, end of the story.

A lot of people agree with him also.

Lol@ BLU/ToAU in general.

King Ranperre's Tomb Monk burns were where it was at before all that new fangled bird camp business and ToAU easy mode xp/merits.

:>

Before my time, Old Timer.

Besides, Imps were where it was at, with the occasional Mindflayer.

[XNihili]

Yeah, Ancient Magics weren't particularly well used, but a team of BLMs were used to sleep/nuke down mobs that were melee resistant or otherwise dangerous. BLM were also the DD of choice for SKillchains/Magic Burst

Blue Magic was very, very different to other magics. They followed not only the elemental wheel, but also the monster afinity chart (this was why MP Drainkiss for example was extremely effective on Colibri), they weren't affected by magic reflection abilities, they could be used as either part of a self-skillchain or a magic burst on that same skillchain. More than just that, they were spells with the shortest cast times, aimed to be used in melee combat. Saying they were the same as other spells means you are either forgetting how they actually were or are deliberately misrepresenting them.

And as for the melee DD, they all played very differently. Thieves were pulling mobs, orgainising the rest of the party into SATA positions. Dancers were using steps, sambas and flourishes along with their weaponskills, DRG were subbing mages and using healing breaths to solo mobs other jobs just couldn't. RDM were solo'ing gods.

So much more variety in roles.

Of course it's a blatant exaggeration. But the BLU spamming spells are not that far from the current DPS abilities "spamming" except with the GCD.
There are currently 2 melee DPS in FFXIV and they are using positioning quite differently. They are about as different as FFXI DRG and MNK while in XP party.

[Aegis]

Of course it's a blatant exaggeration. But the BLU spamming spells are not that far from the current DPS abilities "spamming" except with the GCD.
There are currently 2 melee DPS in FFXIV and they are using positioning quite differently. They are about as different as FFXI DRG and MNK while in XP party.

I think to an extent that's true, but Dragoon in XI had a wholely seperate mechanic (Wyvern and its healing/elemental breaths) that made it a very different beast when solo'ing.

Monk also had the Chi Blast setup, which ok, became redundant as players geared up and it wasn't necesary anymore. It also ahd a place in a zerg party that DRG didn't, but didn't have the place in a merit pt that DRG did.

If you were a 75 Dragoon, your options for approaching content were very different to a 75 Monk, even if the levelling process wasn't that different for you. And they were about as similar as jobs got in XI.

Edit: Also, if you were spamming magic as a Blue Mage and you didn't have a RDM, BRDand Corsair giving you refresh, you would run out of mp and lose overall DPS making you a bad Blue Mage.

(It was my favourite XI job - Thief and Bard came close, but not quite there)

[erish]

Lol@ BLU/ToAU in general.

King Ranperre's Tomb Monk burns were where it was at before all that new fangled bird camp business and ToAU easy mode xp/merits.

:>

This person knows the truth!

Best healer for along time up until really aby was rdm,
Blm was terrible for longest time people just didnt realise it because they were so caught up in skillchains.
Blu was horrible for any kind of group event although admitly it has seen a come back over the years in low man stuffs.
Nin having the ultimate evasion?! u wot m8?! anyone with a decently geared thf says otherwise.

Balance in ff11 is a joke, always has been and always will be no point in trying to talk about that further.

Saying that OP i see the argument your trying to make and i get it, its just a shame you went off on some stupid insults and instead try to argue/explain your points more clearly.

[Aegis]

This person knows the truth!

Best healer for along time up until really aby was rdm : SCH 4 lyfe. AOE Phalanx, Stoneskin and Regen, go see what's on Netflix for 3 mins

Blm was terrible for longest time people just didnt realise it because they were so caught up in skillchains. Black Mage were essential for endgame. Sleep/Nukes in Dynamis and low-manning Apollyon.

Blu was horrible for any kind of group event although admitly it has seen a come back over the years in low man stuffs. I used to be given my own light Skillchain duty on Byakko. Main SC/MB would go off, then I would Self-SC light for a second wave of MBs. After they were done, the main SC pair would have their TP back.

Nin having the ultimate evasion?! u wot m8?! anyone with a decently geared thf says otherwise. Yeah, Ninja evasion was good and it had better shadows, but Thief was better. I got my Joyeuse after taking Charby from a NIN + BRD duo after they wiped while Charby still had 80-85% hp left. Thief + Red Mage the rest of the way.

Balance in ff11 is a joke, always has been and always will be no point in trying to talk about that further. Agreed, in that some jobs were much more popular for certain content. But I also think every job (with maybe the exception of PUP [though solo'ing Diabolos comes to mind]) had a niche somewhere in the game.

My $0.02, FWIW

[Fyce]

A lot of people agree with him also.

Some people just like the idea of classes having a really strong mechanics. But on the subject of current classes being identical? Not really.
The fact that a lot of people can answer the question "What DPS class do/don't you like to play?" is enough to say that no, classes are not the same.

I agree that the "combo" system is a strong part of the gameplay, but there are enough variation to it from a job to another that saying "they are the same" is not the opinion of the vast majority of players.

But, looking back at the whole thread, a lot of the "agreeing" messages were in the lines of "Yeah, ok, I get his point. But...".
So, no, there is not really a general consensus about his opinion.

[Destain]

Super popcorn thread. OP is throwing a hissy fit and feeding on all the attention you are giving him. Constant posters in this topic should just move on. Everyone here is entrenched in their own point of view. No one is going to change anyones opinion. opinion is opinion.

Can't wait for the bold one word cap letters emphasizing something that doesn't with a my little pony theme.

Yes, all jobs are the same. You have HP and use MP or TP to make flashies on the screen. Press buttons, make things happen. The end.

[Cynric]

snip

Well to be honest I would have to really think hard about the balances between the job, keeping them at least somewhat even, while changing them around but keeping them in their spot. I'd like to be able to account for everything that would work with FFXIV. But well for me, at least based on our current job system style, I expected say, Gladiator to play like Paladin, then when advancing to Paladin gaining a new mechanic to make them function a little different where you could really feel that you changed your job, like say, (yes this is completely unbalanced and pointless) Paladin having a way to throw up a slight regen mechanic by playing a certain way or something.

Now as far as the WoW example, I actually know exactly what you mean and well, the point isn't to make it so unique that it has no place in endgame, the point is to just make it deviate from its base in a meaningful way. We are at the point in MMO's where there are clear character archetypes, and back in the day this just wasn't the case, so classes wound up more unique because we didn't have a standard of say "this is what makes a class a rogue/thief" the standard evolved over time from, they steal, to they use daggers, they dual wield, they do all of those things, they stealth, attack from behind, and now we have essentially a basic mold of what makes a scout type character what it is.

Like let's take a look at a basic class versus a class that has deviation for a moment from FFXIV itself.

Gladiator - You generate hate, you get hit, you pop a cool down, you do it all over again, and nothing changes when you change your job either, except you can wear holier looking armour.

Scholar- As an Arcanist your base is a DPS with healing utility, fully capable of healing in low level content, changing to scholar you get 2 different sets of pets, a new type of heal and a new style of management you didn't need to do with carbuncle. Scholar really stands out in FFXIV because it deviates quite a bit from its base as a healer by being a different type of healer and Adlo,Succor, Sacred Soil, Eos , Selene, along with the ability to throw out some half decent DPS really makes it pop out as non-standard while still being basic enough to understand just by reading skill descriptions.

But, as far as I'm concerned there are a huge amount of jobs that can be included into FFXIV, this version is barely a year old and still trying to grow and flesh itself out. With or without a rework, our current basic classes do have a place within the game, a couple of job patches down the line we might have tanks that are hard to play but very rewarding, but we'd still want a beginner friendly tank like Paladin for newer players to tanking. We already sort of saw this where players who had a hard time on Monk or Dragoon switched to Bard or another role because reacting, doing positions, managing a really needed buff, those things weren't fun to them or they felt they couldn't do it.

Now going by what I said I do really believe Summoner should be reworked to be different at least. There should be a basic DoT class, but there should also be a basic pet class or the pet mechanic of summoner should at least be fleshed out more.

Sorry to stray from the point a bit. Anyway all in all I believe there is no need to stray from basic in the case of current classes, because basic has a place, in 3 years when endgame is full of complex yet powerful classes, people will need to start somewhere, and all of these basic jobs are perfect for someone just starting out and even for a seasoned vet , if they enjoy just playing the class for what it is. Moving forward however, I do believe we can add a different level of difficulty or get a little out of the box with mechanics without making anything too silly. The real idea behind making a class unique from its base archetype is fleshing out what makes that archetype fun to begin with then challenging the player to perform, while blizzard just added resources to classes or changed specs(waaaaaay too much)up a bit. I feel like that's not really the right way to do something. But I will say that even though Rogue was a basic scout class, the combo points, and the energy made it stick out a bit from other scouts I've played in the past. That system didn't really change it much from it's base idea, but it made me as a player feel more interactive with my class and have something different to manage than when I usually play my thieves. That's why I see Monk as a step in the right direction, it's basic, but it has a mechanic that challenges the player to play Monk like a Monk. There could of been more to it. But for the sake of a game expecting plenty of new players. I'd love for these first classes to be what eases them into more difficult and less basic ones later on.

TL;DR : Sometimes complexity for complexity's sake isn't needed, while I personally wish the classes were a bit less basic, I'm very much okay with them being that way, as new players and players who don't want complex jobs do deserve to have classes to play. I'm sure we will get jobs that are pretty unique later on, we've only just finished our 1st year of 2.0 after all and we already have something like Ninja coming out, with classes like scholar and warrior already in the game. Basics are the fundamentals of everything your class will do, so you just need to make that a fun and unique experience for the player, even if at the end of the day it's still something basic.

[Scootaloo]

Super popcorn thread. OP is throwing a hissy fit and feeding on all the attention you are giving him. Constant posters in this topic should just move on. Everyone here is entrenched in their own point of view. No one is going to change anyones opinion. opinion is opinion.

Can't wait for the bold one word cap letters emphasizing something that doesn't with a my little pony theme.


Yes, all jobs are the same. You have HP and use MP or TP to make flashies on the screen. Press buttons, make things happen. The end.

*throws food at the troll*

This by far is most lol worthy/pathetic attempt at discrediting me yet, its enough that I choked on the pop I was drinking when I read this due to suddenly laughing so hard.

Dude, do yourself a favor and stay out of this thread while you have the chance to before someone makes you look like an idiot.

[XNihili]

I think to an extent that's true, but Dragoon in XI had a wholely seperate mechanic (Wyvern and its healing/elemental breaths) that made it a very different beast when solo'ing.

Well, FFXI mobs were totally "overpowered" and soloing in FFXIV is lolworthy.
And I did know about solo, maining BST for about almost all my time and soloing with any jobs that could solo.

Monk also had the Chi Blast setup, which ok, became redundant as players geared up and it wasn't necesary anymore. It also ahd a place in a zerg party that DRG didn't, but didn't have the place in a merit pt that DRG did.

If you were a 75 Dragoon, your options for approaching content were very different to a 75 Monk, even if the levelling process wasn't that different for you. And they were about as similar as jobs got in XI.

You mean in gearing your job with 5 hits/100TP vs full haste ? When thinking about melee DPS, it's the only thing that really stuck in my mind.
Except when you have some special duty like stun duty.

Edit: Also, if you were spamming magic as a Blue Mage and you didn't have a RDM, BRDand Corsair giving you refresh, you would run out of mp and lose overall DPS making you a bad Blue Mage.

(It was my favourite XI job - Thief and Bard came close, but not quite there)

I was the RDM in my static.The BLU always had refresh (and haste) on. All the mage and the PLD did.