Honest question: If every player/class/job is equal,who is unique? (Gameplay topic)

[RiceisNice]

People that think having tenacity to stay in front of the monitor makes a boss hard.

And for the record, the perception of difficulty is also subjective. Something could have never been achieved, but its not necessarily for the right reasons.

[Meier]

Trying to be unique in a MMO is never going to happen.

The problem this game has is the itemization. We need our 1.0 stats back, idk what is taking so long.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

I don't get your objection to it. It was a very hard boss. And semantics is the meaning of words. Which word are we arguing over?

The word "hard", which contrary to your frankly bizarre claims does not encompass "taking so long to kill that attackers were literally passing out at their computers". If literally the only thing that constrained them from defeating it was "it's taking so much time that people are collapsing", that is not "hard", that is "padded". It's the reason the term "artificial difficulty" was invented.

[Duelle]

No subjective terms, just hard fact. PW was possible to kill pre-nerf. It wasn't killed. There's no harder boss in WoW or anywhere really. I don't care if you don't want to accept it, it was possible to kill and harder than any WoW boss. Your objection is spurious and subjective.

Not really. I remember having conversations with the senior members of my guild in WoW, most of whom raided during vanilla. Their claim was that vanilla C'thun was mathematically impossible to kill before the nerf/hotfix. As in "considering the resources, class designs, gear and combat conditions, it was impossible for a raid to have the DPS required to kill C'thun". The main issue was that the tentacles spawned inside the stomach and since clearing the tentacles was considered part of the encounter and requirement to kill the boss, you had issues. Here's a quote from WoWhead that sums it up nicely.

C'Thun was literally impossible for any guild to kill when he was first implemented. Phase 1 was doable, but phase 2 was just downright brutal.
Giant Claws had >90k hp, Giant Eyes had >40k hp, the Little Eyes had roughly 2.3k hp. Every 30 seconds, 8 Little Eyes would spawn around C'Thun, and mindflay the raid (if left alive long enough they would kill the healers). On another timer, every 40 seconds, C'thun would spawn a Giant Claw and Giant Eye. The Giant Claws would do about 1.5k-2k (which was a lot pre-BC) on t2 geared tanks and could use Thrash and kill a bunch of DPS or Healers at once. The Giant Eyes had a Green Beam effect that could chain to multiple targets and could kill your entire raid essentially.
When entering Phase 2, C'Thun has 100% HP and now has a protective shield that basically nullifies any incoming attacks to do basically no damage. To damage/kill C'Thun, he would "eat" people every 10 seconds and place them in him stomach. In his stomach are two Flash Tentacles which have 24k hp. Your raid needs to kill both Flash Tentacles to weaken C'Thun. After the nerf (not sure of how many before) it would take 2-3 weakenings to kill C'Thun.

Given the information above, it required guilds in T2/AQ40 gear (Naxx wasn't out yet, even though the gear wouldn't have been significant enough to kill him still) to put out a whopping 230k damage to keep up with the various spawns. Now, this was possible for guilds back then, but only on single targets. When you have 8, 12, 17, 22, or more adds alive (the spawns had no cap limit, you could technically have a full room of tentacles) its very hard to push out 230k damage for your always having to switch.

Patch 1.10.1 (hotfix)
We have also hotfixed the following changes to the C’thun encounter in Ahn’Qiraj:

#Lowered the hit points of both Giant Claw Tentacles and Giant Eye Tentacles.
#Decreased the damage caused by Ground Rupture, and made the effect resistable.
#Significantly decreased the melee damage done by Giant Eye Tentacles.

In the 1.10.1 patch, we also changed the way that C’thun identifies who is in his stomach. The faction changing debuff that was previously applied will no longer appear, but C’thun’s tentacles should not spawn in the stomach, nor should a player in the stomach be the target of C’thun’s Eye Beam.

The combination of these changes should give players more time to damage C'thun instead of dealing with tentacles, and see fewer "unavoidable, random" deaths occur due to Ground Rupture effects.

Patch 1.10.0
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj
# Removed the stacking acid from the Flesh Tentacles in the C'thun encounter.
# Digestive Acid now increases its effect over time during the C'thun encounter.
# Fixed a bug that could allow for the Digestive Acid debuff to be removed.
# Lowered the amount of knockback dealt by Giant Tentacles.
# Tentacles should no longer spawn on players who have just been knocked back by a previous tentacle.

[Scootaloo]

And that's all I'm going to say along this matter...

/thread

[KhalidTheGreat]

If all classes generated the exact same dps/enmity/heal then this would be the most balanced game in the world and something that I would love to see myself.

Because at the end it will all come down to what playstyle you prefer. Ranged or melee, magical or physical damage etc.

But that's not exactly whats going on in this game or you wont see something like (LF blm for turn whatever). Instead it would be (LF dps for blah blah blah). And that's something that we can only hope to see in the future.. Or at least I do.

[Chasely]

I would argue that Absolute virtue from FFXI was a much more difficult boss. It was immortal until you found its weakness; and no one did for several years. The few times it was actually downed involved cheating. SE refused to acknowledge these attempts as victories and banned the offenders.

[Exstal]

My opinion didn't reflect everyone else's.

Although hiding behind the facade that you're an intellectual is a good way to discredit yourself.

I would argue that Absolute virtue from FFXI was a much more difficult boss. It was immortal until you found its weakness; and no one did for several years. The few times it was actually downed involved cheating. SE refused to acknowledge these attempts as victories and banned the offenders.

Wasn't he also impossible pre-nerf? Even with the weakness known?

[Amberion]

Because at the end it will all come down to what playstyle you prefer. Ranged or melee, magical or physical damage etc.

There is only ranged and melee. Damage in this game can be described as generic. And arrow will do as much damage to a soft target, as it will a stone. Same for any other "type" of damage.

As for balance... I don't count that as most important. Making them extremely balanced, removes anything unique in my opinion. And what you are left with, is a Black Mage killing fire elementals with fire. Which is kind of sad when it comes to a Final Fantasy game.

[Scootaloo]

Although hiding behind the facade that you're an intellectual is a good way to discredit yourself.

*raises finger to type a reply but halts* Actually, your not worth the keystrokes to even bother to defend myself to. So congratulations, you won an argument over the Internet.

Pat yourself on the back and be sure to move out of your mother's basement next year.

Also, feel free to make any witty remarks about "she's just butthurt" or whatever now because I'm officially in "I don't give a buck" mode. I tried to make a thread about a mature debate...starts out well and then every white knight except the paladin three threads down charges in to defend their "Favorite" game.... or are they defending the devs? Oh whatever, point is, I'm done caring about this thread.

Scootaloo you make good points, and you've said nothing wrong, the only thing you did wrong was decide to try and post feedback on these forums

I would suggest just avoiding posting on the forums for a while, see if the atmosphere changes, but chances are they won't, and it's just not worth the trouble.

Advise taken pal, should have listened to you 10 pages ago but silly me, I thought people on the Internet could see reason and facts about the game, be polite and intelligent in discussing said facts and not attempt to point out every obvious detail that has nothing to do with what I pointed out but nope I once again put too much faith in a forum populated mostly by WoW babies.(Seriously, take a look at the last 3 pages, all those people who were saying"I couldn't see the differences and am just being blind to them on purpose" were discussing WoW like this was a WoW forum or something.)

(But since people are so fond of derailing this thread with WoW chatter, let me give you a brief history of myself in WoW!)

Still find it hilarious when someone calls WoW raid bosses challenging. Though then again, I was a level 80 DK with end game epic armor and weapons so maybe they were just easy for me because of that?...*thinks on this for less than 3 seconds* Nope! Raid bosses were just easy mode, that's all. I mean when I can run hero mode solo on my DK, idk about you but that screams easy mode. Oh and lets not forget the whole "prince arthus" once they finally added him. Beat him in 10 mins flat with a single party. Most. Pathetic. Raid. Boss. Ever.

Oh and feel free to say "that's BS!" all you want, it's not your fault that you can't hack a game that's already easy mode to begin with.

But yeah, shortly after that I dropped the game like a bad smoking habit because it just didn't challenge me at all. Nothing more than a hotkey mash fest.


tl;dr: I've given up on this thread and don't give a flying crap what people think. Got sick and tired of attempting to make a point only for about 4-5 people to get it while the rest simply bashed me right and left or ignored every point I made and pointed out the obvious which gave their debate no leverage yet they think it did.

As a final note for my last post in this thread, for those of you who did see the points I made or at the very least understood what I was trying to say, you have my gratitude but save your breath when debating this topic, most players in this forum come from WoW and while I know not all WoW players are whining little babies who want easy-mode everything, it seems the ones that do, populate these forums and will do anything to bash the first person who could possibly threaten FFXIV's current easy-mode status by bringing things to light that they don't want see by the devs.