Please give us "harder" 4-man's

[Ultimatecalibur]

At release, Pharos Sirius had three cases of "That <adjective> Boss..." and several trash groups that could wipe a party out. Add in that it had no worthwhile drops and you have a recipe for a dungeon few want to run.

Simon the Unsinkable had a deceptively large arena (because of the damage areas that would be added in a random pattern), fairly tough adds, and every AoE inflicting a stacking debuff that did crazy damage if you got to many stacks.

The Corrupted Sprite trash mobs had Banish III, a spell that could take off most of an i70 tank's hp off if it wasn't interrupted.

Zu's adds were annoyingly powerful and it was possible for Zu to enrage even if you had only broken the eggs about to hatch.

Siren was basically a 4 man hardmode trail at the end of the dungeon. She would randomly choose between doing a variation of Ifrit's charge or the Hydra's Fear Itself. She had the ability to charm targets unless they were at max hp and an ability that lowered healing potency to make things worse. Adds would spawn through out the fight and were capable of stun locking the healer or tank if they were not killed.

These things would not have been so bad if the rewards were nearly unuseable i60 gear in a dungeon that could give i90s trouble.

This is not saying that I don't want Harder dungeons just that I would prefer adequate rewards for doing it. I hope the Sastasha (HM), Sunken Temple (HM) and Snowcloak are designed to handle and reward characters in i110 gear.

[Amused]

At release, Pharos Sirius had three cases of "That <adjective> Boss..." and several trash groups that could wipe a party out. Add in that it had no worthwhile drops and you have a recipe for a dungeon few want to run.

I never cared about the rewards. I ran Pharos Sirius because I enjoyed the dungeon itself.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I never cared about the rewards. I ran Pharos Sirius because I enjoyed the dungeon itself.

Same for me. I tanked first timers successfully through it several times, and the only times I ever left the dungeon uncompleted was when the rest of the party abandoned the duty to my chagrin.

This is part of why people had problems on this dungeon. The rule of the first boss was "stop DPSing the boss when the adds come out, until they're dead." It was the opposite of a DPS race, it was a "tortoise vs hare" scenario. The 2nd boss you needed the DPS to know how to do their job great (not good, GREAT) to get rid of the adds fast, and the healer needed to know how to heal well and anticipate things to avoid the party wiping. 3rd boss as far as I could remember was always trash. Siren however, dear god those adds used to have quite a bit of HP and could hit hard. It was hard to take them out if the DPS weren't concentrating on the same target, and if the tank didn't grab them it was possible for somebody to get that annoying song on them while getting attacked by the mob, and for the healer to be unable to take it off just due to the damage being taken.

Zu and Siren also used the "stop DPSing when adds (are about to) come out" rule, this is because the adds in every boss fight spawn (or start hatching) based on the boss' hp%.

[Kyros]

The Corrupted Sprite trash mobs had Banish III, a spell that could take off most of an i70 tank's hp off if it wasn't interrupted.

You know, I actually liked this. It was the first time since forever that I had felt the need to stun/interrupt/silence something in a dungeon in ages.

Regardless, I do think the reward/difficulty ratio was off. Kind of the same argument was made by Ramuh: A fight that challenges i110 players but gives i100 rewards is not good design. I'm pretty sure Ramuh is impossible to beat at i85, which is the minimum required to enter.