Goodbye cleric stance.. you will be sorely missed

[Shake0615]

This is relative to your experience only? It is possible in JP servers that white mages and scholars are doing very high damage some game exceeding 100000 as blanket number for both class. This is because flag is already taken due to strong holy spam and there is no need for long fighting to build numbers on damage scoreboard.

It is my experience on the Primal DC which is the most populous in NA, yes. In burst situations I would want to see a combat log readout that shows Holy hitting for numbers higher than Flare, Bane, or any other caster skill. I just don't see the issue with WHM/SCH damage as being nearly as threatening as people say. The majority of my evidence is anecdotal, I'll admit. But the burden of proof should have been on the people claiming that healer dps was so overpowered, and to this point their claims are tenuous. I'm not at all convinced.

[Zyphione]

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If the post is directed to my reference of JP White Mages, it is 8 of them using holy and defeating a party? Damage is shared but averaging 100000 for each healer in the course of 1 frontline game. It is a fact that healers usually do not do very high damage per game as the Black Mage and Marauder do at some points but in my given 8 White Mage situation, average divided damage and defeating the enemy party in a minute after being engaged at the flag.

There is no need for high damage when this is enough secure conflicted points and come out as victor. Because of this, cleric stance was removed? and using holy will no longer be a strategy to win conflict points without issue, thus giving others who do not want to be 8 white mages as a chance to play instead of being frustrate.

[Shake0615]

If the post is directed to my reference of JP White Mages, it is 8 of them using holy and defeating a party?

Since when has this been a widespread problem? I don't see it in NA DCs. Show me threads where this is a problem elsewhere cause right now it's nothing but hypothetical.

[Zyphione]

Since when has this been a widespread problem? I don't see it in NA DCs. Show me threads where this is a problem elsewhere cause right now it's nothing but hypothetical.

I mention it directed to my problem with a question mark for this reason. I do not know if this problem is common in NA so that is why I mention JP? I do not play on NA and I am here to give some people ideas on why changes are made? I am not here to prove by linking threads to many other JP websites as you will not be able to understand or navigate much there? This was used against me in very rude ways that I link threads but no one understand before so I will not do so again.
If you are truly interested then you will search JP website

It is not the only reason cleric stance is remove because that would not be making sense if its just for this.
If you want much proof over my 1 suggestion then we do not need to talk further as you will press me for more proof which is same as you find out yourself that way is better for us both.

Removing Cleric Stance was still unnecessary though? If this has to do with an 8 man WHM party spaming Holy, why wasn't stun removed for pvp purposes and take a damage% nerf. Or. Giving pvp skill focalization a slight buff. Something other than killing off an entire half of what made healers diverse in the first place.

It has been long problem in PvP that Scholars and White Mage have advantage over many classes in areas of population majority, so we do not talk about very good player for this situation now. If all player in a frontline game are new to a class, many scholars and white mage can kill multiple people because they keep in mind on sprint and cleric stance cooldown.

Scholar has posted before and his post was brought here by Divinemight where he explains he has 5000-6000HP and shields himself for 700-900HP to total 7000HP at very most with many mitigation such as focalize and attunement with fairy roused heals and fairy healing over time and fairy healing increase buff. Swiftcasting stoneskin after first stoneskin drop and cleric stance all Damage over time effects then to use Ruin until target dies and target has no hope of beating you outside of common rotations and in many case, you can defeat 3 people by yourself with minimal effort or understanding of class outside these general rule.

If you want to talk about 'skill player', those skill player never go off on their own to find as many 1 against many situation because if you are defeated and lose flag since team has 1 less healer, then you are not skilled player at all.

There are many situation where healers have become jack-of-all-trades and master-of-many in frontline, weaknesses are few compared to true dps classes outside of the painful marauder. It was also mention even marauder high damage last a short time only then they become passive until 1 minute+ later where the danger comes back of their high damage.

[Shake0615]

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I'm sorry if any had been rude to you for providing JP posts. I'm not sure why they would respond that way

All I can say for sure is that 8 WHMs locking down a node is not an issue in NA data centers, so removing Cleric Stance does nothing but make any WHM a sitting duck. Now they simply can't defend themselves when staving off solo snipers and traveling between points.

[Domira]

Now they simply can't defend themselves when staving off solo snipers and traveling between points.

This isn't a fault with the class, but the player. The healer role by nature is a team supporting/sustaining role. If their strength is in sustaining a group, then their weakness would come into light when they do not have a group to support.

[Shake0615]

This isn't a fault with the class, but the player. The healer role by nature is a team supporting/sustaining role. If their strength is in sustaining a group, then their weakness would come into light when they do not have a group to support.

Then, as many others have said, where are the tank nerfs? Cause I can see PLDs and MRD putting out too much damage for their "role." If their role is to peel and defend their team then to be consistent we should disallow any and all abilities that buff their damage output. Healers were already weak in the damage dealing department before removing CS. Now, as I said, they're sitting ducks. Helpless. But the real issue I have with the change is that SE decides to listen to a completely ignorant yet loud minority of the forums rather than dealing with any of true problems facing Frontlines. It was a lazy decision with poor reasoning behind it. I think Kisada summed it up best in the following post.

It's about...
1. wholesale, punishing changes incited by
2. players without requisite experience, skills or know how affecting
3. classes that are already in short supply in a game event that already has
4. rapidly fading interest and fundamental flaws with queue times.

It's not even necessarily the fact that healers lost an ability. It's the fact that healers are continually being driven into the ground based on the reckless complaints of players who haven't even played those jobs, let alone fully understand them. And it's the fact that the devs continue to listen to these kinds of players over the ones who actually DO have the understanding and experience of how these things work. Think of the message that is sent when players who have many years of pvp experience in other successful games get ignored by the devs and then are at the mercy of the demands of these reckless requests. Eventually the message is so strong that players will get fed up and leave instead of putting up with bad design and balance changes.