Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Jynx]

I thought 1.x failed because they took XI as a reference.

If by reference you mean they purposlfully made a game the exact oposite of XI you mean? Tanaka was quoted as saying he wanted to make something as different from XI as possible to avoid making a XI-2.

If your going to toss out facts please check them first.

From a famitsu interview on the subject of how Tanaka felt on the subject of development direction.

"The trigger for me thinking about leaving was getting removed from the Final Fantasy XIV project," Tanaka told Famitsu. "I helped mold Final Fantasy XI into one of the best MMO formats on the market, and I wanted to respect the wishes of the team as much as possible when they wanted to make something different with FFXIV, so I tried my best not to meddle too much with development. In the end they weren't able to realize what they were aiming for, which is a shame, but I wish them the best of luck with the reboot."

[Anapingofness]

snip!

Not to mention that one of the biggest things that gated people was RNG.
Here we have a couple of things that are RNG (namely Atma) and people are up in arms over how unfair it is.
In XI, pretty much everything endgame was RNG.

Yes, I'd like the game to have more "depth" but I wouldn't call this game bad. So far I like the story and the characters in it. Also if they do add more "depth" I'd prefer if they left the RNG to a minimum.

On an off note, Marik, I think the likelihood of XIV getting Dancer is pretty high. Dancer seems to fit XIV style fairly well. ^^
T_T Sadly, the job I wanted won't be added... v-v;

[Tupsi]

I thought 1.x failed because they took XI as a reference

Considering XI is one of the most successful MMOs to come out and one of SE's most financially successful titles? No, it didn't fail for taking XI as a 'reference' (so much hate towards XI by XIv players lol.) 1.0 failed for these two reasons:

1. It was unfinished.
2. It was on an engine not designed to run MMORPGs.

FFXI was built from the ground up on a custom engine - something they decided to do for ARR while maintaining most of 1.x's content and systems. So those who say they get rid of most everything from 1.0 didn't play it past September 2010.

So if they truly did use XI as a reference, it wouldn't have failed because they would have known better.

[Pandastirfry]

Same lore. Same regions. Same races. Same classes. Same jobs. Same monsters. Same NPCs. Same animations (albeit speeded up, and some lost). Same servers.

It's a stretch to call it a new game. SWG was changed far more for the NGE, but it was still SWG.

Dude, seriously... 1.0 was ended, the lore from it concluded. The servers were shut down (heck even the forums were too) a new beta and client was released... Stop being obtuse

[Tupsi]

Dude, seriously... 1.0 was ended, the lore from it concluded. The servers were shut down (heck even the forums were too) a new beta and client was released... Stop being obtuse

^ This is the proper use of sarcasm.

[Alukah]

-snip-

I don't know if I'm reading between lines but looks like it's the team that wanted something different, not Tanaka. In his words he tried to stay away and respect the team but that's just his words, what actually happened and why he got removed from the FFXIV team is another thing. His choice of words leaves a lot to interpretation.

-snip-

I know you take all XI / 1.0 topics personal, as there's no day you don't spend with the rose tinted glasses on mentioning either, but I doubt that outdated game would do well if it was released today, it had its time back then before MMOs became mainstream, but today if that same game was released under today's standard it wouldn't do well, like it or not. Those many changes people criticize that "drove away the core playerbase" would be necessary to even attempt to compete with today's mmo market.

[Scootaloo]

You are correct to an extent. Yoshida has stated in multiple interviews that he's going to play it simple and safe for a year or two to come, just to set up the fanbase, the world, and give it a good amount of content, I'm sure also to give the team time to think of creative systems as well.

So as much as I believe they should stop playing it safe, I believe they will when they feel the time is right.

The problem with that is this:

The longer the game sits in its current state, the harder the recoil is going to be when they DO add depth and variation amongst the classes. As it stands, 80% of the playerbase hails from the WoW Playerbase/forums due to the game's current simplicity and "easy mode" content which most WoW Players are used to and enjoy.

Just look at the recoil the EX-modes, Atma, and coils have had. Most players to even attempt and beat most EX battles, coil turns, and farm the Atma hail from the 20% of the playerbase that don't derive from WoW. You may think me biased but I'm not. I USED TO BE ONE OF THEM. So I know WoW in and out. However once I picked up FFXI, I dropped WoW like a bad habit. Yes, I hold some resentment for the game(not going to get into why) but that has no impact on the above stated facts.

My point is this: The sooner they get creative again and add depth to the classes and games, the less severe the backlash is going to be.

[Lemuria]

My character is 4 years old. Your argument is invalid.

So is mine, but it's nothing like it was when I started.

My conjurer used to have every elemental spell, including 'ancient magic' like Quake. Thaumaturge had drains and siphons. Crafting leves gave you all the necessary materials in advance. It was a different world back then, and our characters were worlds apart from what they are now. To say it's the same character is like saying my Lalafell is the same as my FFXI tarutaru. Hint, they're not even if the names are the same.

I guess what bothers me is that they perhaps made too many drastic changes overall. The removal of the element system in its entirety is the single most bone-headed thing ever to come out of ARR. It's like hacking off your own limb just because you want a prosthetic which doesn't do the job half as well. Sure, we have 'elemental resistances' but those make approximately zero difference to the damage received or dealt.

By removing certain mechanics, they've also removed some of the flexibility they had for making jobs more unique and full of flavour. Black Mage could've easily become the master of the elements instead of going for the hat-trick, which would have opened up other possibilities for element-based skills on classes to make tactics a thing. Monsters with strengths and weaknesses would also add flavour to the combat instead of having everyone mash the same button combos on every single enemy regardless of type.

Say what you will about FFXI, the combat at least was varied and made you think more about your opponent instead of whether or not your feet were still in a red circle.

[Tupsi]

I know you take all XI / 1.0 topics personal

You can't ignore the facts - You basically stated that 1.0 failed because it copied a failed MMORPG (XI), can you show the proof that XI was a failed MMORPG? Instead of the personal attacks, show more data. I don't take it "personally", I just actually played both MMOs. 1.0 being unfinished and designed on an engine not suited for MMOs is the main reasons it failed, even Yoshida stated as such. "Too much work went into tiny details and overburdened the engine, for example there's a ton of shaders and polygons in this one flower pot alone."

It's easy for even the most newbie developer to test - Try to make a platformer without any platforming logic and see how well your platformer works - That's essentially what they did with 1.0 and using the Crystal Tool Engine, it had no logic for MMORPGs.

but I doubt that outdated game would do well if it was released today

The irony of this statement is companies still copy WoW to this day, a 2004 MMORPG, only 2 years younger than FFXI. So it's less me "taking x seriously" and more like it seems you dislike something you even admittedly never even played back then.

[Felis]

Monsters with strengths and weaknesses would also add flavour to the combat instead of having everyone mash the same button combos on every single enemy regardless of type.

Is it so bad that we don't have the "juhu, I do 100 dmg more with this element skill" moment anymore?
Even in 1.0 and 1.23 the difference between right element skill and wrong element skill was not very big.

And BLM played during 1.23 this way:
single enemy = lightning spells
group of enemies = fire spells
reducing enmity = freeze
managing your mp = good luck