Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[ApolloGenX]

If they add PUP, it will be a very generic version.

The design of this game is simplistic. It is done that way to tightly control player experience. Tightly controlled experience allows easy balancing/tuning of fights and faster production of content. (Even if recycled.. meh)

This game isn't about creativity or problem solving through diversity of abilities - it's about following the dance they set for you - either grinding something - or following a script and not messing up. Team jump rope.

[Riviere]

This is X not Y is a terrible reason for not adding in interesting mechanics/depth to the game.
Seriously people who reply like this are stupid.

Amen brother!!

[Risvertasashi]

Again, please remember:

This thread is not here to request puppetmaster be added to the game.

[ApolloGenX]

^^ My comment was about the design more than the job. We can't have things like that, because it doesn't follow the game design.

[cryptic_angel]

I feel like the conversation has gone a bit off the rails here. Please remember:

This thread is not a request to bring in puppetmaster.
This thread is not a request to copy FFXI mechanics or endgame, etc.


What is it? A request for more complex, thought out, deep jobs. Comparable to some jobs/classes seen in other MMOs. I used a specific example of a job from XI I came across while surfing, but it's not the only example out there.

I'm not saying the more straightforward jobs should go away. I would just like to see some options at the other end of the spectrum.

I agree, I will list two things I think would improve the game.

I think we should have things like skill chains.

I would love to see a forth role consisting of pure buff/debuff/support, it would allow for fights to be tuned with bosses that hit harder, have higher dps checks, or are very healing intensive. Imagine needing a rdm or brd to debuff a boss enough so we could defeat it. I think with enough support jobs for the sake of variety, the aforementioned concept would be interesting.

I'd just be happy if they opened up the support skills a bit more. There are literally DOZENS of skills which would benefit other jobs which can't be used by that class. Why? Goodness only knows. Presumably because of some bizarre notion of balance, and yet these skills are undoubtedly useable by the class the job is built from.

So, just because I go from Gladiator to Paladin, I can't regen TP with Invigorate? Does equipping the stone make Paladins stupid? They even removed Thunder from Summoner's cast list for reasons unknown.

I guess that's my biggest gripe when it comes to 'customization'. There is literally none when it comes to skills. You have a handful of ones you can actually equip, and usually less than 5 of them are actually beneficial for your job. Much less than 5 if you're a Black Mage or Summoner.

Either they could give us some new equippable skills, where we're restricted to 1 new skill out of the selection. Or they could open up the cross-class skills to make them actually cross classes. Right now it feels more like an afterthought than any real attempt at character customization.

I agree with this sentiment 100%

Cross class skills should be interesting and more than "I'll take what ever to fill up the 4th and 5th spots on my cross class skill slots." There should be hard choices to be made, such as choosing between a reraise or a dps cd. I think there is a lot of potential in the cross class skill system and yet some jobs hardly benefit from it as stated in the post above. BLM is a great example of who gets the short end of the cross class skill stick.

[MageBlack]

Changing the entire game of baseball vs implementing a job/design choice which would add minor complexity to a small portion of the game.
Terrible analogy.

In case you missed it I was being a little bit satirical. I'm not against adding in a bit more depth and stabilizability to the jobs, In fact Yoshi-P has mentioned he might overhaul the armory system for 3.0 because of issues in trying to create more jobs and the uselessness of classes once you get the job.

My post was more poking fun at your comment. There are better ways of getting your point across then using ALL CAPS OR SAYING SOMEONE IS STUPID IF THEY DONT AGREE. Take care!

[Risvertasashi]

^^ My comment was about the design more than the job. We can't have things like that, because it doesn't follow the game design.

Well, damn. Yeah, you make a really good point. I'll just hold out hope though....

[Hyrist]

I have to wonder though about the level of depth and complexity people are seeking. There is truth in the argument that most of FFXIV's jobs were simple when you remove much of its redundancy. Jobs like Puppetmaster and Blue Mage were somewhat of an exception due to the number of passive traits that could cause these's Job's focuses to shift. However to some degree, this already exists in FFXIV's core Class/Job system, as evidenced by Arcanist, and even disregarding that, within stance like abilities like Warrior's Defiance or Conjurer's Cleric Stance. Even the varying pets of Summoner provide differing depth within its design.

As a personal note, I would not mind them expanding on the established concepts they have to add more depth to the game. We have not even seen the depth of what has been introduced with Ninja. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode. I want to know what they have planned for the Class system as it stands. I can't help but feel that we are left with a half written page and providing feedback on chapters undefined.

[Risvertasashi]

However to some degree, this already exists in FFXIV's core Class/Job system, as evidenced by Arcanist, and even disregarding that, within stance like abilities like Warrior's Defiance or Conjurer's Cleric Stance. Even the varying pets of Summoner provide differing depth within its design.

As a personal note, I would not mind them expanding on the established concepts they have to add more depth to the game. We have not even seen the depth of what has been introduced with Ninja. I'm in a 'wait and see' mode. I want to know what they have planned for the Class system as it stands. I can't help but feel that we are left with a half written page and providing feedback on chapters undefined.

Sure, I won't argue that; there are some interesting possibilities within the current system. But it's all in execution, not setup. And for arcanist... well, it's most a matter of: Want to SCH? MND. Want to SMN? INT. There's not that much leeway. SMN almost has it, with STR and VIT affecting pets, but since it's more a dot job than a pet job, INT pretty much wins out. If 80% of the damage came from the pet instead of the summoner, maybe we would see things like STR SMN builds? That would be kind of interesting. I doubt you'd really see VIT builds, though, because titan egi is expressly designed for solo play.

Well, I'm hoping 3.0 will make things better too. We'll see.

[Exstal]

I have to wonder though about the level of depth and complexity people are seeking.

From what I understand, people want the ability to choose from a bunch of different "styles". They also want all them to be viable.

I don't think it's a worthy venture because it'll only take a week or two to figure out which is the best style and you're a moron for not using said style. I saw this in another thread, "What if there was a STR specialized DRG and Crit specialized DRG? What happens when the theory-crafters figure out that Crit specialized shits all over STR spec in DPS and you decide you want to be STR spec? Guess what, you're booted for being STR spec. Come back when you're crit spec."

Other than that, I've never seen any of those people suggest a system that could work without basically ruining the balance SE seems to want to maintain. Although, the common retort is, "it's up to the devs to make it happen."