Is this the road they will continue to take with items?

[SarcasmMisser]

Fixed that for you to reflect current end game.

So how many high allagan weapons do you have? You seem to think its very easy, even savage, which like 2 groups worldwide have cleared all of. Are you going to put up or use the "groups hold me back" excuse that convinces no one.

Already untrue. The best weapons in the game right now come only from coil now and that is the only choice. One choice. One choice out of three top weapons. Yet people settle for soldiery weapon or novus

It could be that most players in this game aren't great at difficult encounters and cannot do raid content before significantly overgearing it with nerfs. Or they only want gear on terms they're comfortable with like doing long grinds that only challenge their free time, something they have a suspiciously large amount of. It doesn't help that SE pigeonholes all challenge into a single raid and makes everything else a total face roll, being tolerant to a fault of their playerbase's aversion to learning their job.

[Soulscar]

I like collecting the armor sets for my main so I'm not too fussed.It is kinda disheartening that I grinded a 300 myth cap for like 3.5 months to get my full Wyrm set and this can now be obtained in a few hours but whatever. At the moment I'm doing CT and first coil for the pieces I missed.

[Kuwagami]

People will always do the fights that gets them the best gear and ignore the rest, whether it's horizontal or vertical progression.That's not so hard to get is it ? Making a horizontal progression somewhat works would require the gear to be difficult to obtain but you're against that according to your post.

Just a little question like that, reading your other posts about how much you dislike horizontal progression...
I thought the point of horizontal progression was to give people choice. Yeah, there will be always an item that theorycraft will set as "best", but really, what's the point ?

Min-maxing is.... garbage for likely more than 90% of the players, as they don't play at a level where it really matter (not that it really matters at all anyway in a game where "have enough accuracy" is the only real condition to clear content). Also, unless coded by dummies, horizontal progression shouldn't release items flat out worse or better than the previous ones. They'll be more visually attractive, offer a few more bonuses but you'll lose the ones you had, etc... But, you will have the choice.


You think you don't have that choice because you are willingly ignoring that theorycrafting isn't the only way to go.
"Oh sorry you do 2 dps less that this guy according to my excel notes, can't take you in my group"
Hmm kay thanks see you around ? What about other options that are similar even though they are not the best, or even gear which look I like, and cuz their stats were on par (slightly under best, of course theorycrafting said it. Theorycrafting is life) I took it over the one everyone else want because someone said it was better ?


People that can't think out of numbers may not like horizontal progression because "it's only an illusion of choice" or whatever similar biased "argument" they may find, but it doesn't mean it's not a good way of doing. And noone forces you to say 6 month+ with the same gear. Get a new set, test it out, get an other, and so on. You're free. Free ! It's a MMO, it's your world, YOU decide what you want to wear, what you want to do, etc...

(on the other hand FFxiv forces you to get the best gear every time because, you know... The 2 new sets you have every other patch negate totally the previous ones. Your choice just disappeared, and all that remains is :
=> doing raid ? kay get your "BiS"
=> not doing raid ? np you still have that 2nd best set, just make sure to get enough accuracy for raid if you ever want to test it ! )


_______________________________________________________________________________________


On subject, I also find plain stupid to force feed players with the latest gear available. The hunt have made every dungeon before the last 3 totally useless. New players now have only to do simple steps to catch up :
=> reach 50
=> do story dungeons
=> do hunt a couple of hours to get i80 at least
=> farm your relic, atma, animus (atma may take a bit longer than the rest)
=> in the meantime, get full i100, even some i110 pieces thanks to syrcus tower
=> syrcus tower also allows you to skip relic process to get soldiery weapon, then a few more hunts to get it to i110

No need to do any dungeon other than the new 3
No need to even consider dungeon drops.
No need to even enter a dungeon if you like the hunt

New "progression" killed the progression. It's no longer progression if there is no middleground. FFxiv is now pretty much all about "start at lowest possible and go to maximum available directly".


How hard is it to make the next tier of gear require the old one + some stuff to exchange ? It's not like it is hard in any way to gather this gear (well, the new dungeons drops are hard to get due to crafting mats but that's an other story).

I refuse to think a new player would be forced out because he actually has to work a bit for his progression, instead of being forcefed with max tier directly.

Bolded is false btw. If you mention actual DPS numbers from a parser, or just mentioning the parser while doing so, then perhaps. But just saying someone is doing poor DPS? Nothing wrong there. Know why? Because saying someone is doing poor DPS isn't breaking any rules.

also because you don't need a parser to see someone is doing clearly sub par dps

[Tupsi]

Welcome to a vertical progression MMO. Don't get attached to anything.

^ This is the "standard", it's very very unlikely to change now.

[Copestetic]

I don't care if there's vertical progression as long as I can get myself geared through doing what I enjoy doing; PvP.

[cryptic_angel]

I got your point, it's still a worthless one and you really don't seem to get it but hey, they do say ignorance is bliss so be my guest.

You backed up my point with your own rebuttal.

I will just re-quote you real fast just in case you already forgot:

People will always do the fights that gets them the best gear and ignore the rest, whether it's horizontal or vertical progression.That's not so hard to get is it ? Making a horizontal progression somewhat works would require the gear

Your point here is brilliant! Nay! Exceptionally brilliant! Stupendous! Five Stars, would totally read again!

I agree 100% that most players will skip over content that lacks proper incentives. People don't do Ramuh EX because of poor incentives to do the fight.

It seems SE does not know how to put in proper rewards to entice players to do the latest EX primal. SE is making rookie mistakes! If I was yoshi, I would have put in ilvl 110 rings in Ramuh EX. Seems like a much smarter design decision to me. You can white knight it up all you like, but every patch comes with horrible developer mistakes.

So how many high allagan weapons do you have? You seem to think its very easy, even savage, which like 2 groups worldwide have cleared all of. Are you going to put up or use the "groups hold me back" excuse that convinces no one.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/3085650/ I have one

Yes, it is hard to even try brutal coil when your static does not want to do it! What am I supposed to do? Should I quit my static because they don't want to do brutal coil for some crappy titles that would be hidden most of the time anyways?

[Dwill]

Bolded is false btw. If you mention actual DPS numbers from a parser, or just mentioning the parser while doing so, then perhaps. But just saying someone is doing poor DPS? Nothing wrong there. Know why? Because saying someone is doing poor DPS isn't breaking any rules.

I'm assuming that whoever makes the claim usually as the proof to make up said statement but if you want to argue technicality, sure, just stating the words "x person is doing terrible DPS" won't get you banned. But if you ever make the statement, be ready to get asked by at least a person how you would know that information.

You backed up my point with your own rebuttal.

I will just re-quote you real fast just in case you already forgot:



Your point here is brilliant! Nay! Exceptionally brilliant! Stupendous! Five Stars, would totally read again!

I agree 100% that most players will skip over content that lacks proper incentives. People don't do Ramuh EX because of poor incentives to do the fight.

It seems SE does not know how to put in proper rewards to entice players to do the latest EX primal. SE is making rookie mistakes! If I was yoshi, I would have put in ilvl 110 rings in Ramuh EX. Seems like a much smarter design decision to me. You can white knight it up all you like, but every patch comes with horrible developer mistakes.

The White Knight excuse, now with 100% more reason to use because you someone disagrees with you

Your ability to just skip over the point everytime you quote this is astounding though, I'll give you that. Keep at it.

[skaterger]

snip

Wait, if min maxing is not a priority, and gear is garbage aside from the accuracy cap, then is that really a lack of options or choices aka horizontal progression as you like to call it? What about gc company gear, crafted gear, event/seasonal gear, primal gear, dungeon gear, AF gear etc etc. All these are sufficient for everything in game if you don't plan to do coil. The point people don't bring it up is that they still want the best gear in game which brings us back to the point of what should constitute getting it? I would like to hear your suggestions, because all the games with them have either like I mentioned, an incredible amount of rng and grind like XI or lack of end game content (no raids like gw2). What is in it for players who look to improve their character? Where is the incentive to keep playing?

[Gardes]

Novus and Soldiery weapons and the soldiery armor principally because most of them can't even get past T5 which makes it unable for them to even get access to High Allagan pieces of armor and the i115 weapon.

You make it sound like that's the only reason people dont do coil 2. There are people who, after being helped get past t5 still don't want to try coil2 while it's up to date. I've seen people claim in my random hunting ls that they don't even want to try t5 seriously yet after a couple tried because they want to do something else in the game. Mean while this same person is happily hunting everyday and buying up sands and oils to i110 his gear. Yes, people will ask for the gold axe when some random lady of the lake shows them a gold axe and a silver axe and asks them which one they want to be given. If BiS means that much to every player, they will be throwing themselves at twintania until they can start trying for the i110 bis pieces and reject the alternative soldiery pieces that are not BiS but they are not. They pick soldiery because it's more reasonable for them.

I don't know how people just read what I post (asking for more paths per ilvl increase that arent as extreme in stat increases, using older content as a spring board so that they are not completely junk) and then come to the conclusion that I'm asking 24+ hour spawn NM grabs with 1% drop rates or that I'm lamenting that HA weapon being the best weapon gained from the hardest content is unfair.

[Tupsi]

So how many high allagan weapons do you have? You seem to think its very easy, even savage, which like 2 groups worldwide have cleared all of

Very few even attempt it due to its shared lockout - Why do essentially experimental content for the same rewards when you can faceroll the easy versions you've been farming for a long time now? So it's hard to really use Savage Coil until they split the lockout when more groups will more than likely be willing to attempt it. It's like back in 1.x, few completed Relics but the reward was worth it because relics used to actually be...worth something:



This was far more interesting itemization and was actually worth the time it took to do it - Since this game they're only going with Stat+x/second stat+x style itemization..there's really no room for anything special or true 'options", since the options we get usually replaces a stat with something you don't want.