SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Ilitsa]

But what if other users don't have a machine that can run them? It's not fair to them!!!!

null point, I play console and use voip just fine. Skype/mumble/ts/vent

skype, mumble, teamspeak, and ventrillo even all have smartphone apps that can be used. They are accessable by 99.9% of anybody these days, either through pc, laptop, smartphone or tablet.

edit for clarity sake: I'm not saying I'm against parsers/add ons. I use them on WoW emphatically, I can't imagine the game without some of the addons I use (DBM, Recount, Selljunk-oh god this addon!). Using the console playerbase as a scapegoat for them not being added is wrong though. It's not OUR fault, it's the dev's choice.

i'm not against the people using addons here either, by all means, use them, I just ask that you be respectful with said information in the parser, there's a right and wrong way to act with that info, lets not be World of Warcraft community about it, alright?

[Sadana]

So your only problem is that something touches the game files, not the advantage it may or may not give?

Are you asking me personally?
If so, anything that can touch/adjust game coding for some information/benefit provides more information/potential advantages to pc users only and not consoles users is NG and shouldn't be allowed in game.

[Taban]

null point, I play console and use voip just fine. Skype/mumble/ts/vent

skype, mumble, teamspeak, and ventrillo even all have smartphone apps that can be used. They are accessable by 99.9% of anybody these days, either through pc, laptop, smartphone or tablet.

edit for clarity sake: I'm not saying I'm against parsers/add ons. I use them on WoW emphatically, I can't imagine the game without some of the addons I use (DBM, Recount, Selljunk-oh god this addon!). Using the console playerbase as a scapegoat for them not being added is wrong though. It's not OUR fault, it's the dev's choice.

i'm not against the people using addons here either, by all means, use them, I just ask that you be respectful with said information in the parser, there's a right and wrong way to act with that info, lets not be World of Warcraft community about it, alright?

I'm aware some on consoles can use them, but I would assume some also can't. The original argument in this thread was that parsers shouldn't be allowed because it wasn't fair that some people could use them and some couldn't, I was trying to make the point that accessibility doesn't really seem to be the motivation since people are 100% ok with other programs. It's pretty obvious at this point their real argument is that they just don't want people parsing their dps, which is an entirely different argument from whether or not it's "fair".

[Elven]

I'm aware some on consoles can use them, but I would assume some also can't. The original argument in this thread was that parsers shouldn't be allowed because it wasn't fair that some people could use them and some couldn't, I was trying to make the point that accessibility doesn't really seem to be the motivation since people are 100% ok with other programs. It's pretty obvious at this point their real argument is that they just don't want people parsing their dps, which is an entirely different argument from whether or not it's "fair".

What about all third party apps in general regardless what they do? Just to clarify the apps that take from the game for example a parser. Are you happy with that answer?

[ispano]

Anyone who has to rely on a program is a crappy player.

They can say they are good but they aren't, a good player could win with what is presented to them.

You can tell yourself no all you want or others, you are the one using the program to get the best possible results its almost like a gameshark, a person doesn't have 10 more strength but character sucks so you can't win so you replace it with a code just to win the fight.

so instead of struggling and trying your best you get someone else, that is way better than you are, I mean you couldn't win with this other person in party but once you get the guy who has better stats, that carries you through the dungeon fight or whatever it is, you think you guys are big time players. you suck cause you couldn't win without that person.

and that program and im not talking about vent.

You know that you're blatantly wrong, right?

Firstly, comparing a parser to a cheating device(ie gameshark in your example) alone destroys any credibility you have. One just compiles information that's already given to the player in game into an easier to read format. Yes, given to the player already. The other literally breaks part of the games code to cheat.

Secondly, your description of a "good" player is wrong. True good players will use tools such as parsers to help improve themselves. Not just automatically think they're good. People who think like that usually aren't the good players. It's something similar to the Dunning–Kruger effect explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect The good player will always question himself and seek ways to improve. Parsers help with this process since it allows them to more easily and quickly assess the information that we've already been given via the log and on screen damage displays. On the opposite end, the "poor" player won't, he already thinks he's doing well and never questions it until it's proven he's not doing well. But the thing is, outside of being poor at dodging, proving it is effectively disallowed right now. But if you read that wiki article, usually once you can prove it to the person, they start to judge themselves properly, but of course, this being the net, that will likely not happen as often.

Lastly, once official addons are implemented, there's a tidbit about them Yoshi mentioned. He said they will have access to information the client does, such as damage information. So, look forward to it.

[Taban]

What about all third party apps in general regardless what they do? Just to clarify the apps that take from the game for example a parser. Are you happy with that answer?

I still think it's a silly position, but it's less hypocritical than simply arguing for "fairness".

[Barimu]

I don't mind parsers as you need them in an mmo to determine if someone is capable to get past dps checks that the game pushes. However, any type of addon such as Deadly Boss Mods needs to never be implemented god please no. DBM ruined WoW and destroys any challenge of a fight. If you need DBM to play, im sorry but you are bad.

[Lemuria]

You know that you're blatantly wrong, right?
/snip

Secondly, your description of a "good" player is wrong. True good players will use tools such as parsers to help improve themselves. Not just automatically think they're good. People who think like that usually aren't the good players.

You heard it here first, everyone. You're not a good player unless you parse. That's almost as good as confession, you realise... or are you saying you're one of the bad players?

Either way... you know that you're blatantly wrong, right?

[Edeline]

DPS parsers just let you see numbers and are just e-peen in the end, they mentioned plans for integrating a DPS meter into dummies but like a lot of things it was just thrown out as a vague idea without any concrete info on when it'll be implemented.

The thing is, parser program(s) are featuring this radar thing in their apps. While DPS parsers are just indeed e-peen after all and not harmful, people who use said parser also have access to this radar cheat. I don't think people would oppose to parsers as DPS meters only, but what I said previously.

[ispano]

You heard it here first, everyone. You're not a good player unless you parse. That's almost as good as confession, you realise... or are you saying you're one of the bad players?

Either way... you know that you're blatantly wrong, right?

I said that they will use tools, not that they always do. They don't outright refuse to use them because they automatically think they are good.

It's the same in real life, having confidence in your skills is one thing, but if you start thinking you have nowhere left to improve, or you're good and don't need to check yourself and such, that hurts you.

So, no, it's not wrong.

First step to being a better player than you currently are is to understand you're not perfect. Understanding your weakness and your failings. Understanding there is always room to improve. And understanding that you don't always know it all, and know when another player or a tool can help you improve. Among other things of course. But until someone breaks out of that shell, they usually have the mindset that they are good as they are, and I don't mean accepting where they are, but thinking they are playing well.