Your thoughts on the direction of this game?

[Velhart]

The structure is built upon WoW, why play a clone when you can play the original? I don't want to go play WoW I honestly do not, however, if all this game is going to do is mimic WoW, I'd much rather spend my monthly sub on the original copy than the wanna-be.

Edit: The only reason I and many others on these forums bad mouth 14, is because we want to see the game become better and last long not because we just wanna bad mouth it.

Why play Darkstalkers when I can play Street Fighter? Why play Final Fantasy 1 when I can play Dragon Quest? Genres are inspired by success in it's own territory, its been that way since the industry even started, MMO's are no exception to this concept. FF has been that way since day one. Even FFXI used Everquest as a blueprint to create it's game, and even then FFXI brought a few things to the table that still made it stand out from other MMO's. Mechanics wise its very, very rare a company makes a game that is truly original or groundbreaking/standard setting. The thing you have to ask yourself is, "Is the game fun? Am I having a good time?". If the answer is yes, then it matters not to me how they did it or what they used inspiration from.

This game while I do have my own complaints of some systems (like the Hunts), it doesn't mean I want them to tear down the foundation of everything. I rather give constructive criticism of how to improve what is there.

[Barimu]

The thing you have to ask yourself is, "Is the game fun? Am I having a good time?". If the answer is yes, then it matters not to me how they did it or what they used inspiration from.
This game while I do have my own complaints of some systems (like the Hunts), it doesn't mean I want them to tear down the foundation of everything. I rather give constructive criticism of how to improve what is there.

This game isn't fun when everything is so damn easy and content is thrown out the window every 3 months and gear is handed out like its candy. Your bold statement is pretty much all 1.0 players wanted SE to do but they made a complete game from scratch that went the complete opposite way of what everyone wanted this mmo to be. SE tore down the original foundation and made a crappy WoW clone thats all

[MageBlack]

I'm impressed someone actually read my post and took the time to respond. Thank you!

Reading your response though, I feel I need to clarify a few things.

Whether you are a fan of the games current heading or not is irrelevant. We're all allowed to voice our opinions. I'm very happy for you you have friends and family who actually play the game. Most of us do not. I know 1 person in real life who actually plays this game and he sticks with it because currently there just isnt anything better, just a bunch of other games that are exactly the same.

I get that there is a lot of preference in what you select to play and what you deem worthy of attention. There are other games out there, lots of them. ESO and Wildstar to name two recent ones, with EQN on the horizon. This, however, does not invalidate how you and many others feel about this game and weather or not you are interested in playing the other ones for whatever reason.

It's nice that the game starts out simple. Nobody would have any fault in that. There always needs to be "tutorial" levels. Where most veterans come from is we're used to something along XI's system where your tutorial levels in basic job mechanics were levels 1-10. Levels 10-25 was your tutorial in party mechanics. Once you started to hit level 30 is where you were expected to have a good grasp on how to work your job. This tended to require a couple of weeks of play time to accomplish, or more if you couldnt log on as frequently.

In XIV the tutorial is literally the entire spectrum of your levels. 1-50 is your beginners tutorial and it can be accomplished in days by somebody who spends a lot of time in the game. A couple of weeks for the average player. So where people get annoyed is when you drop an initial $60+ on the game alone and then pay a minimum of $12 per month and the game is literally over two months in because it possesses zero replay-ability.

I agree with you here, having 1-50 a "tutorial" seems a little excessive. It kinda devalues the entire journey, which is my favorite part of any game. I did like many things about FFXI, the immense feel to the game, the feeling of accomplishment in gaining a single level, and many other things. There was also lots about it that i didnt like, how long it took to get places, a party, level up, the lack of systems in place to make playing it fun instead of a chore or forcing you to constantly tab out of game to search the web for info, among other things.

Nobody is seriously wishing for the game's demise. They're wishing for a balance. See, for you there are several options for games to play. WoW, Guild Wars, XIV, and it's many carbon copies. For us, there is no other option, especially if you are looking to play it on a console of some form. XIV is the only MMO available over a console. (XI does not count as it's core mechanics have been long since changed to be exactly like XIV). Final Fantasy is a universe most of us grew up with since the 80's. We have literally grown up playing SE's games and we sincerely wish to continue that trend as we've grown to love SE as a company. We feel FF's are a part of us.

I don't agree that there aren't other options. We both have the same options, but I do agree about the console being very limited. That's on the developers head to make their games for wider audiences. I am also in that list of people who grew up playing FF. I still remember playing the first FF on the NES for years, over and over. I can still, to this day, make my way through the entire game and get everything without needing to reference any websites. Some FF's were better than others and personally i feel the franchise has been losing its magic and appeal since FFX, that was the first FF i played that i wished it would just be over.

A vet wanting change is just as selfish as you wanting everything to remain the same. The very reason XIV was created was for change. If they wanted an MMO any 4 year old could pick up they could have just upgraded XI instead of making something completely different which is what they had set out to do. Unfortunately SE no longer prides themselves on innovation. It's a shame, cause when it comes to their console games they have no fear of alienating gamers. They have a new idea and they run with it. Yet when it comes to MMO's they are crippled by fear and instead choose to play it safe and keep XIV in line with it's twin brothers and sisters already out there.

Here's where i need to actually depart from my agreement with you. I never once said I wish it to remain the same, I do not begrudge the changes people are asking for (most of them). Some are legit, I wish they would bring back the elemental wheel, That is a core feature of a FF game. I want to cure skellies to kill them! I dont want to use fire on Ifrit cause it will heal him. The combat could use a bit more depth, something that gets deeper as you level would be great, right now, it is quite simple. But the reason we have the "safe" route taken with ARR is because 1.0 failed so badly, worse than any other MMO fail I can think of. It was bad on so many levels, UI, Lag, Empty World, and the list goes on. But because it was a numbered sequel in the final fantasy franchise, they couldnt just let it close down and tank. They worked hard, through really awful conditions, to put out something that they could at least recoup their losses on and hopefully have something that will survive for a few years. I dont think they expect ARR to take the world by storm. 1.0 could have bankrupt the company ARR, is saving it enough to hopefully redeem themselves in the future. Cater to an elite hardcore crowd, the game will die. Cater to the casual crowd, your game will die. But if they can at least cater to a casual crowd to start, they can get the initial funding they need to build on the game to make it something the hardcores can also enjoy. (hopefully not a SW:TOR repeat)

All MMO's are "unfinished" so anybody who tries to throw that out there just makes no sense. WoW has been around since 2004 and its still "unfinished". Ultima Online has been around since the early 90's and it's still "unfinished".

When I said "unfinished" I probably should clarify further. I understand that the very nature of an MMO is its design allows and promotes additions and constant growth. The game effectively never ends. But I've been a part of this game and community since the 1.0 beta so I have seen the rise and fall of Tanaka and went through all the Players Polls, eagerly awaited the LftP and was pouring over the forums every chance I got for any scrap of news. In that time I recall many of the systems Yoshi-P wanted to have in his game. Golden Saucer, Free Company summoning system, DirectX 11, and expansions on systems we just recently got in place. The housing (personal), PvP (more maps and options), Eternal Bond System, etc. In one of the interviews before 2.0's release I recall Yoshi-P saying that the vision he has for the game wont effectively come to pass until the first payed expansion. They still had so much work to do but due to PR and previous failures, they could not stay down and out of the public eye long enough to afford him the time to polish the game to a standard he would have liked for a real release. They feared the few people interested would be lost for good if they were down for too long.

For reference, in 2 years he rebuild an MMO while simultaneously maintaining and improving a failed version they KNEW they would be scrapping, though the Fukashima Disaster, all the while being called out by wonderful people on their forums. Just to name a few things they had to contend with to get to where they are today. I guess I just have a different understanding or perspective of the situation than most.

You say no matter what somebody will be unhappy. You are 100% correct. Where you are wrong is to think XIV is balanced. It is no where near balanced. It is 95% new school easy and 5% old school. XIV's model is based on the premise that the game is so easy that as old players leave, the influx of new players will make up for it. The influx of new players will only last so long. XIV approaching a year mean's it's not as shiny and new. New games will come out that draw people's attentions away. XIV will become a small community of die hards with no influx of new players. The same thing happened to XI only it took a almost a decade for it to happen to XI. It's looking like that will be the case in less then 2 years for XIV.

All the advertising dollars in the world wont keep a game with zero replay-ability.

I never thought that FFXIV:ARR was balanced, I only said, IMHO I enjoyed the game for what it is, not what I want it to be. I saw what Yoshi-P and his team did to 1.0 and how much they changed it. It was actually kinda fun by the end. If he can do that with a broken system from the core out, I have every confidence in him to make big changes now that he has laid down the foundation as something that he has intimate knowledge of. Right now it may seem as though the Devs are close minded, I would say more focused on getting things "completed" and once people have played the game as a whole as it was meant to be seen, then I'm sure they would be willing to make big changes. things like the elemental wheel could make a comeback (please!). I also recently read in an interview with Gamewatch (i think) where Yoshi-P was saying he might rework the class/job system to allow for more flexibility in player customization as well as making it less restrictive for them to make and release new classes/jobs. Notice how we only have one class that has two jobs? He could have done a bunch more with relative ease but they wouldnt have had the versatility that he and the players want to see.

In closing i will say that I'm not completely satisfied with FFXIV:ARR but I like what is here for now and see a brighter future for the game as it does have such potential. My previous post was mostly directed to the doom and gloom style poster, and not the level headed approaches full of interesting solutions for issues (perceived or actual). Some threads are good to see, "Teleporting makes the world seem small" and others make me roll my eyes "Summons are too small!". But it is all based on a personal opinion.

Thank you for letting me share my opinion and I hope with my clarifications that you have a better understanding of my positions. No poster is black and white. All we usually see is a single comment on a single issue in 1000 words or less (unless you edit). Take care I hope you will eventually find a game that satisfies your craving.

[Xystic]

They're wishing for a balance. See, for you there are several options for games to play. WoW, Guild Wars, XIV, and it's many carbon copies.

I don't see how any of those 3 are carbon copies. All three are quite different...if not extremely different.

Honestly, there was enough information during the release of the game to tell an individual the direction the game was going in.

There were several thorough reviews on this game during its release.

[Felis]

The problem is Yoshi-P(yaknow the developer/director/producer) said it himself this is a WoW clone and he aspires the game to be WoW.

If I remember it right, he said that the devs team looked at WoW while working on ARR like the XI team looked at Everquest while working on XI.
It worked for XI since 12 years, it can also working for ARR if they bring now own ideas in the expansion pack now that the basics are in 2.x

That's because XI had so much content and time sinks to do!

What I heard not before the first expansion (NA version came out with first expansion)

[Meier]

They need to bring back the 1.23 battle system.

[Volcano]

The problem is Yoshi-P(yaknow the developer/director/producer) said it himself this is a WoW clone and he aspires the game to be WoW.

I am aware of that, as i already had this conversation. with someone else, the problem is i'm not seeing it, maybe this is just a better game, then a 10+ year old MMO.

[Barimu]

If I remember it right, he said that the devs team looked at WoW while working on ARR like the XI team looked at Everquest while working on XI.
It worked for XI since 12 years, it can also working for ARR if they bring now own ideas in the expansion pack now that the basics are in 2.x

That's because XI had so much content and time sinks to do! This has none of that also going back to a quote of his "his goal for Final Fantasy XIV was "to get into the hands of hardcore MMO players [and] reach out to players that have never played them before." The problem is he hasn't touched upon the hardcore MMO players and all he has done is focus on new players. If all this game is going to do is give out gear like its candy, make everything so simple, the game will not last. This is an MMO and this honestly has no re-playability.

[Barimu]

I am aware of that, as i already had this conversation. with someone else, the problem is i'm not seeing it, maybe this is just a better game, then a 10+ year old MMO.

The way the direction is going right now, it isn't and will not be a better game.

[Elven]

It's just a black hole like any other mmo. There is no making it better by doing this or that because sooner or later you still end up investing way too much time and resources to put the game down. It's loot on a stick aka carrot and you're being subliminally pulled from one grind to the other.

Knowing all this I still play but with a little less enthusiasm each time. Some days I don't think about it that much.