So resetting's against the rules now?

[Aegis]

The sense of entitlement that leads people to believe that they MUST be at every mob absolutely baffles me.

Show one quote of someone saying this. That they must be at every mob. Just one.




Or admit you are misrepresenting the views of others to make your argument easier.

^ This. There are situations where a mob can be reset and it was unintentional. Maybe someone didn't see it and basically facepulled by way of tripping over it, but they kept on running. In this case, the mob would reset but it was accidental. Purposely resetting and saying over shout "I'M DOING THIS FOR YOU GUYS!" doesn't change that it's griefing. If it was that simple, every troll ever would just start to yell that their intent was good.

Then mods should say that only accidental resets are ok. That would be acceptable too. But they haven't. They've left it vague

[Ashkendor]

Show one quote of someone saying this. That they must be at every mob. Just one.

Or admit you are misrepresenting the views of others to make your argument easier.

There's no quote in this thread, but it's quite evident from the behavior that I see ingame. Whenever I hunt, I see people haranguing others for pulling early (when in reality they waited 3-5 minutes for people to show up), people screaming for a reset, and even people clamoring for blacklisting of whomever pulled it. At every single mark. The mob mentality runs rampant, and that mob apparently believes that it is entitled to every single hunt mark ever.

Then mods should say that only accidental resets are ok. That would be acceptable too. But they haven't. They've left it vague

I'm pretty sure this falls under "intent". >.>

[Aegis]

There's no quote in this thread, but it's quite evident from the behavior that I see ingame. Whenever I hunt, I see people haranguing others for pulling early (when in reality they waited 3-5 minutes for people to show up), people screaming for a reset, and even people clamoring for blacklisting of whomever pulled it. At every single mark. The mob mentality runs rampant, and that mob apparently believes that it is entitled to every single hunt mark ever.

Screaming for a reset? You mean shouting? That's the only way to broadcast across a zone. Blisting of early pulls have nothing to do with resets. People also Blist resetters on some servers.

Well, then do you believe that even one of those players believes they are entitled to every single hunt mark ever? Including those while they are offline? You keep making exaggerations to demonise the other side of the argument. Just try tone down your rhetoric. How about "The sense of entitlement that leads people to believe that mobs should ideally be held to allow greater numbers of people to get rewards baffles me"?

[Thayos]

Thanks, Enkrateia... that's still not a perfectly clear answer, but the fact it's not 100-percent clear adds to the clarity, imo.

My takeaway from that is even good-intentioned resets can still result in account actions, but that GMs aren't soulless beasts who blindly "side" with one point of view over another.

I don't know how much more clear than this you want it to be.

If it were that simple, the GM would flat-out say it... but, just above, the GM says "Again, there is no single, absolute definition of what will be found to be a violation, since every situation is unique and must be considered as a whole. The infinite possible permutations of unique situations prevents an absolute definition."

Seems "clear" enough to me now.

[Irving]

Thanks, Enkrateia... that's still not a perfectly clear answer, but the fact it's not 100-percent clear adds to the clarity, imo.

My takeaway from that is even good-intentioned resets can still result in account actions, but that GMs aren't soulless beasts who blindly "side" with one point of view over another.

Please refer to this:

The clear area: Resetting elites is against the rules.
The black and white area: Whether you do it intentionally or not, the GM will decide either based on several factors.
The gray area: The reasons why you reset the mob, but this gray area is irrelevant, your reasons simply don't matter, they will go based on the clear rule that resetting is griefing and then decide if you intended to reset or not, that's all there is to it.

I don't know how much more clear than this you want it to be.

[Thayos]

I may be wrong but to me it seems like you are in denial and not accepting that resetting is griefing.

Nope. In fact, I said several posts back that resetting is officially a disruption tactic, as termed by the GM.

But the GM clearly said (again and again) is the investigation focuses on intent.

The GM also says there's no simple way to resolve these investigations, saying there are an "infinite possible permutations of unique situations" that could decide the outcome of an investigation.

You're trying to say this is a black-and-white issue, but that's clearly not what the GM is saying. I know that's what YOU really want it to be (and I kind of wish it were, because that would make everyone's lives easier), but it's not.

Thanks Enkrateia for clarifying this.

That, we can agree on.