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  1. #1
    Player
    Zantetsuken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,979
    Character
    Siorai Aduaidh
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Krr View Post
    Dark Souls and Monster Hunter both feature vertical progression placed alongside horizontal progression. In fact, the only real difference in their progression structure from FFXIV is that the horizontal options have more breadth. The rest of the games you mentioned are competitive multiplayer games in design formats that have nothing to do with MMORPGs.
    By 'more breadth' I assume you mean that DS and MH have 'a healthy amount' as opposed to FFXIV's 'none at all'

    The list of games that I mentioned are proof that horizontal systems have been successfully implemented and are a now a standard feature in nearly every single modern genre. ARR's purely vertical system is hearkens back to those old arcade games from the 1980s
    (4)
    Last edited by Zantetsuken; 07-28-2014 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Krr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    741
    Character
    Murah Jhida
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantetsuken View Post
    By 'more breadth' I assume you mean that DS and MH have 'a healthy amount' as opposed to FFXIV's 'none at all'
    You're right, there is zero horizontal progression in FFXIV. Every time you get a piece of new gear the only thing that increases is its primary stat, and there are no secondary stats with questionable benefits and drawbacks that give us more than one option at each item level tier. The problem is, obviously, that these secondary stats need to be invented. For instance, how about one of these stats gives my attack more raw power, while the other lets me execute them faster, another makes them more accurate, and another still increases my chance to randomly do more damage with an attack?

    Obviously, the problem is that these horizontals don't exist, and has nothing to do with their lack of balance.

    (You really seriously have never analyzed good MonHun builds if you think that game is horizontal in the slightest. Each weapon has one of like, three pre-defined skill setups you work towards that are about as static as talent tree builds in WOTLK-era WoW - no one sane uses a Greatsword set that doesn't have Focus, Quick Draw, and as much +Power because that's the only way to make Greatswords good at what they do. And the difference between a Greatsword, and say, a Lance is no more 'horizontal' than the difference between a Paladin and a Dragoon.)
    (0)
    Last edited by Krr; 07-28-2014 at 05:53 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Zantetsuken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,979
    Character
    Siorai Aduaidh
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Krr View Post
    You're right, there is zero horizontal progression in FFXIV. Every time you get a piece of new gear the only thing that increases is its primary stat, and there are no secondary stats with questionable benefits and drawbacks that give us more than one option at each item level tier. The problem is, obviously, that these secondary stats need to be invented. For instance, how about one of these stats gives my attack more raw power, while the other lets me execute them faster, another makes them more accurate, and another still increases my chance to randomly do more damage with an attack?

    Obviously, the problem is that these horizontals don't exist, and has nothing to do with their lack of balance.
    No, the problem is that they DID exist in 1.23(as did an elemental wheel), but were stripped out of the game in ARR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krr View Post
    You really seriously have never analyzed good MonHun builds if you think that game is horizontal in the slightest. Each weapon has one of like, three pre-defined skill setups you work towards that are about as static as talent tree builds in WOTLK-era WoW - no one sane uses a Greatsword set that doesn't have Focus, Quick Draw, and as much +Power because that's the only way to make Greatswords good at what they do. And the difference between a Greatsword, and say, a Lance is no more 'horizontal' than the difference between a Paladin and a Dragoon.)
    Those builds in MH are defined by the players rather than the game.

    Furthermore, players can individually adapt builds to better fit their style. A Greatsword player has access to a VAST amount of skills to tailor as they please. Some may be better than others, but certain situations call for different skills and so there are even per-monster builds.

    FFXIV is a one-size-fits-all styem. Every job/weapon/armor/must be equally viable in all circumstances.

    In a way, I don't blame the devs much for the gimmicky endgame fights, it's the only way to make the game appear interesting, given the boring growth system they appear to be handcuffed to.
    (5)
    Last edited by Zantetsuken; 07-28-2014 at 06:20 AM.