Is the PS3(4?) holding back the game?

[abzoluut]

This doesn't say anything about the game being hindered from progressing - meaning no expansions, no major updates so on and so forth.

He asked how the PS4 had something to do with holding back the mentioned aspect I used in my thread. So I gave him an URL which talks about memory.

Also, I wasn't talking about major updates nor expansions. I'm just curious how much they want to do, but can't because of cross-platform reasons. I'm sure this game will survive, again, not the point of my post. xD

[Tupsi]

The PS2 held back FFXI

Yep, 12 years and 5 expansions surely is being held back..then again maybe I'm not understanding the concept of "held back."

I'm just curious how much they want to do, but can't because of cross-platform reasons. I'm sure this game will survive, again, not the point of my post. xD

Yeah, nothing major. Look at PC only MMOs - they tend to not really...do much and they're held back by nothing theoretically.

[KiriA500]

Yep, 12 years and 5 expansions surely is being held back..then again maybe I'm not understanding the concept of "held back."

That was a joke, seeing as the PS2 clearly didn't hold the game back at all. Just pointing out that console limitations don't automatically make the game worse.

[Staris]

Yep, 12 years and 5 expansions surely is being held back..then again maybe I'm not understanding the concept of "held back."



Yeah, nothing major. Look at PC only MMOs - they tend to not really...do much and they're held back by nothing theoretically.

12 years 5 expansions?

Ultima online is like what... 17 years... who knows how many expansions.. clearly 2D didn't hold back that game

ff14 should be remade in 2D clearly.

logic

[Ryel]

Yep, 12 years and 5 expansions surely is being held back..then again maybe I'm not understanding the concept of "held back."

Except that it was? Don't get me wrong i started playing FFXI on Ps2 release when it came out, i even remember the additional $100 or so i had to pay for the HDD.

Lets not sit here and pretend that "Ps2 limitations" weren't something repeatedly mentioned by both the players and developers when it came to issues designing systems for the game.

Things like varied gear designs, larger zones, lack of add-on support and inventory restrictions were all born of the developers basically trying to ensure content worked on what was steadily becoming a dated system.

No one will deny FFXI met with moderate success for the many years the game was running, but it was also a different time for MMOs back then.

Yeah, nothing major. Look at PC only MMOs - they tend to not really...do much and they're held back by nothing theoretically.

This is grossly inaccurate, lets take a look at the life-cycle of something like WoW which was exclusively PC.

While it won't win any beauty contests by far, WoW has evolved quite a lot from it's initial release (Flying over seamless zones, various gear designs, remodels and overhauls, battle pets and small systems, player count, area design etc.) and was only capable of doing so because it was a PC based MMO.

Lets not pretend that modern MMOs aren't pushing the bar higher because the specs on the average PC are getting better, you need look no further than games like Guild Wars 2, and Wildstar to see the kinds of things modern MMOs are trying to do.

The Ps3 is 8 years old now let that sink in for a second to anyone trying to compare this to FFXI's 11 or so year lifetime, the Ps2 was not that old when the game was released and did the game no favors when MMOs started moving forward.

[Tupsi]

Except that it was? Don't get me wrong i started playing FFXI on Ps2 release when it came out, i even remember the additional $100 or so i had to pay for the HDD.

"Increase our inventories!"
SE: "PS2 Limitations prevent us from doing so" = "We have no plans to currently."

Care to explain our Mog Sack, Mog Satchel, 80 Inventory slots and Mog Case that all is based on your native inventory number? Unless I'm mistaken, FFXI was still a PS2 game at that point. The main limitation was they exceeded the amount of space for XI as they never thought XI would live as long as it did.

This is grossly inaccurate

So you're saying PCs are limited like consoles and are unable to ever be upgraded thus developers having more they can work with as the game ages? Which is why I said look at PC only MMOs - despite all that's available to them, eventually they can do more as technology advances and as the standard user are using more powerful systems.

Lets not pretend that modern MMOs aren't pushing the bar higher

The point was: Despite having a lot available to them many devs decide to "Settle for less" instead dof pushing the bar higher. All WoW ever did was make MMOs more accessible to the general populace, thus making MMOs more mainstream than what they were back in 2004.

Why are almost all new MMOs following the "standard" instead of pushing the bar? They're settling on what works and what is "safe to do", which is why even ARR was redesigned with that minimalistic approach. No one is pretending, if you've dabbled in the MMO market beyond "triple a titles" you'll realize very quickly almost all MMOs that's been released so far haven't really been what you call: "bar raising."

[Ryel]

"Increase our inventories!"
SE: "PS2 Limitations prevent us from doing so" = "We have no plans to currently."

Care to explain our Mog Sack, Mog Satchel, 80 Inventory slots and Mog Case that all is based o your native inventory number? Unless I'm mistaken, FFXI was still a PS2 game at that point. The main limitation was they exceeded the amount of space for XI as they never thought XI would live as long as it did.

Well actually yeah, they did come out and say Ps2 limitations were why they had to basically come up with multiple ways to work around adding direct inventory after a certain number of gobbie bags and why things like mog locker etc were made instead of using a bag system like seen in other games.

which is why i specifically said this:

Things like varied gear designs, larger zones, lack of add-on support and inventory restrictions were all born of the developers basically trying to ensure content worked on what was steadily becoming a dated system

And when it comes to this:

So you're saying PCs are limited like consoles and are unable to ever be upgraded thus developers having more they can work with as the game ages?

I'm saying the opposite, that they CAN do more because they can be upgraded, once again the Ps3 is 8 years old

and if we're talking about the current standard one of the major things in MMOs is a mostly zoneless world, something this game DID have before Ps3 release.

and yes that bar has been raised, take a look at the similar FATE style systems of a game like Guild Wars 2 with actual world bosses that don't crash the servers or the "rift" system from RIFT

If you think MMOs function on the same simple level as FFXI years ago you're sorely mistaken

EDIT: Even auto translate limits in FFXI were an issue caused by Ps2 memory limitations at the time

XI forum thread on Ps2 limitations

[SinisterJoint]

"Increase our inventories!"
SE: "PS2 Limitations prevent us from doing so" = "We have no plans to currently."

Uhh no, that is wrong.... very wrong.

This sentence actually means what it says, not what you think it does. They cannot make the inventory larger than 80 because of the consoles. Not just ps2 but xbox as well. Sorry.

Also, yes.... current consoles do hold the game back (READ LIMIT) of what it can do. You are foolish if you think otherwise. The way you are reading into this is pretty hilarious though. lol

[Tupsi]

Uhh no, that is wrong.... very wrong.

This sentence actually means what it says, not what you think it does. They cannot make the inventory larger than 80 because of the consoles. Not just ps2 but xbox as well. Sorry.

Also, yes.... current consoles do hold the game back (READ LIMIT) of what it can do. You are foolish if you think otherwise. The way you are reading into this is pretty hilarious though. lol

Not wrong at all. They used PS2 limitations as an excuse for the longest. If the PS2 limits their ability to increase inventory space and they still did it years later while XI is still a PS2 game as of 2014, that means the limitation wasn't what held it back, just them not wanting to do the work around needed to get it, hence "no current plans" Anyone who's played XI knows they used quite a lot of excuses to not give us what we wanted at the time. They said they couldn't take inventories past 70 because of "PS2 limitations" and "we can't offer any other inventory systems due to it", yet they introduced Mog Sack, Satchel and Mog Case.

Then again I've learned not to take things as face value when it comes to business, perk of working with them I guess.

It's funny though - whenever someone asks about why PC Only MMOs never really do much beyond "the safe route" no one has an answer - If consoles hold back MMOs, what's holding back MMOs on a platform with virtually no limits as the technology improves basically every couple of months? Pretty sure having access to more than 16gb ram and terabytes upon terabytes of drive space ontop of 6+ core processors can lead to some pretty amazing things....

Yet most PC only MMOs are still designed like 2004 PC MMOs with prettier graphics. You can try to argue "to allow everyone to play", but in reality, if you're rocking a Dual Core or Core Duo PC/Laptop in 2014..they really shouldn't be designing with that in mind, because that means console based MMOs are technically better at that point.

So since you can see the future and believes SE tells no lies - What's the PS3 and PS4 holding back? What couldn't they do in the first Expansion due to the system that held back a system? I mean, if SE can introduce new systems to a PS2 era MMO in a monthly update, what can they not do with a game developed on the PC and later ported to consoles?

[SinisterJoint]

Not wrong at all. They used PS2 limitations as an excuse for the longest. If the PS2 limits their ability to increase inventory space and they still did it years later

You need to read what I said. Tell me which bag in XI has more than 80 slots. NONE because the consoles limit it to that. I didn't say they didn't or couldn't add more bags, I said they couldn't make bags more than 80 spaces because of memory issues.This is FACT and im too lazy to find you the post. I'm sure if you search though that you can find it.


You want to know what is holding back PC Only mmo's? Economics. If you design a game that only high end pc's can realistically play then you aren't getting the most bang for your buck.

Not everyone has over 16gig of ram, or a 6+ core processor, or a 3gig + graphics card. To design a game like that would be stupid because you are only reaching a small target audience.

Why can't I argue "to allow everyone to play"?? It designed like that to allow people to catch up with new hardware? Consoles still wouldn't be better because you still cant upgrade them.

Don't confuse technology with hardware limitations, which the consoles have.

Why do you think our inventories in ARR are so small, ps3 memory.

Your lack of knowledge when it comes to computer parts and what they do explains why you think monthly updates = system still prevalent.

Since you are asking what the ps3 and ps4 are holding back, I'll bite. It's the fact that you cannot upgrade their hardware. They are stagnant systems, meaning that what you see is what you get. Where as a pc is more like a revolving door, capable of having new hardware come in and old hardware go out. THAT is why. It doesn't take someone who can "see the future" to see that.