[PETITION] Primal Mount Acquisition Adjustment

[TeganLaron]

People keep comparing it to things like gear, and getting Allagan weapons before others etc. but it's very different. In a year or two a Tidal Wave weapon or an Allagan/High Allagan weapon will be completely useless, so you're right, RNG on that isn't as much of a big deal. My point is in a year or two, not only will you still be able to ride around on your amazing EX mount, but (in the case of most people) if you are not fortunate enough to have gotten one, well, you're never going to.

Almost nobody on my server does Garuda/Titan/Ifrit EX anymore anyway, especially not farm parties. You have the odd group where five or six out of the eight need the clear and one or two people helping and wiping in desperate hopes of a mount. And now with them being removed as a requirement to move onto Levi/Thornmarch, literally no one will do them. If I knew I could get a guaranteed mount by doing fifty, one hundred runs, or whatever amount, at least it would give me a reason to still do it, a goal to work towards. But I could literally do hundreds of runs and not even see a mount drop. Or if I was somehow lucky enough to see one, I then have seven competitors rolling on it with me.

I understand that there are things that should be rare, special, and very difficult to obtain. But when it comes to the rest of the game, things are changed so everyone can enjoy it. Coil had lock outs removed, was nerfed, stuck on Duty Finder, and given the echo buff for those who wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise. Well some people care about things like vanity mounts just as much, if not more, than progression. I just think it's a real shame that they go the effort of designing these amazing things only to ensure that the absolute smallest percentage of users will ever get to attain it.

[ShinkuTachi]

I disagree with this petition on the grounds that some drops are just intended to be rare.

If you're on your 1000th try, someone is on their 1st, and the RNG gods happen to be in the newbies favor; that's not a fault with the system, that's simply luck of the draw.

snip

You are right, there is a difference between gear and these mounts. Aside from progression, newer gear is needed to experience the newer content provided by the game and further story elements. This is why things like coil and stuff eventually get nerfed with Echo and whatnot. These mounts are not needed to experience any part of the game's plot oriented content, they are nothing more than in-game collectors items.

The main reason for the nerfs in things such as Coil is to make sure no-one is left out of plot oriented content. It's not simply to make things easier for the sake of making things easier, just so others can experience it.

[Mardel]

Thing is, in a game that catered to a casual audience SE doesn't have much of a reason to put it behind a crazy drop rate. The hardcore people may try and grind it, and once they get it... that's pretty much it. If SE wanted this game to be more community based and make older content relevant they would put it behind an achievement. This way vets and noobs alike can always strive to get the mount and work more towards it.

[TeganLaron]

The main reason for the nerfs in things such as Coil is to make sure no-one is left out of plot oriented content. It's not simply to make things easier, just so others can experience it.

Really? Then why were the EX Primals nerfed along with Coil then? Coil may be related to the story, but there is no plot to the EX Primals whatsoever. And even in Coil, you no longer need to do the turns in order, so you could skip straight to Turn 5 and miss out on all the story related cutscenes anyway. The nerfs happen for the reason I said, to let everyone experience it.

EDIT: Reached daily limit so just adding this on here.

It's to give players another option of gear progression through, To Tussle with Gods. Thereby, still falling in line with my stated point above. Gear progession leads to experiencing further plot oriented content, primal mounts do not.

EDIT: Also, doing Turns in or out of order comes down to individual choice. You also have some players that choose to skip past each an every piece of dialog, so I don't see how that matters.

I just think you making claims that it is anything to do with plot is flat out wrong. What was the hardest thing we had to do for the plot in last batch of story quests, Leviathan HM? You're telling me that couldn't be done without an i95 Turn 5 weapon? That they had to nerf both Coil and EX Primals so people had their gear for mighty Leviathan HM. No, the nerfs are nothing to do with the plot, but if you still cannot see that I won't try and convince you anymore.

The ironic thing is people keep calling us "whingers" because we want the mounts to feel "special" when in fact it's not like that at all, it's actually the other way around. The majority, albeit not all, of the people arguing against this already have their special mount and are basically throwing a tantrum because they don't want other people to get it too. No one here is suggesting that the mounts just be handed out, that every Primal kill should yield a mount, we are offering to work for it. How would earning it by doing fifty, hundred, maybe more kills, be any less deserving than say...

I also have, Enbarr, got it on my 2nd-3rd kill of lev ex.

Then we get comments like...

people are so butt hurt and want to play an MMO without the MMO grind.

No, actually it's the opposite. People could theoretically (no matter how unlikely) get all five, now six, mounts in their very first attempt. Is that a grind to you? No, it's being rewarded just because the game decides so, no grind whatsoever. No one is asking for the mounts to be given up for nothing, it would just be nice to have an alternative to RNG. Whether you believe in good and bad luck or not, the fact is some people do just have flat out bad luck. We keep talking about the low drop rate but in theory someone could see the mount twenty, thirty times in a row, and still lose every time. That's just the cruel nature of RNG.

People keep talking about how rewards should be rare, but this is just a game. I'm not asking for a Purple Heart or an Academy Award here, I'm asking for an alternative method to obtain something which would make me enjoy the game more. As for those who are so vehemently against it, I can't think of many honest reasons why other than spite.

And my final edit then I'll head off.

If you don't like or agree with my point, that's fine; however, that doesn't make it any less correct.

I'm afraid you're not correct though and are kind of rambling now. At no point did complain about the weapons, that has nothing to do with this topic, or my comments related to RNG on the mounts. In fact I said the opposite, I said I'd take a mount instead of a Mirror. You were the one saying Coil and EX Primals were nerfed for progression through the story, which is just categorically wrong. EX Primals are not even linked the story, while Coil and EX Primals drop i90 gear, which is worse than the i100 gear your Soldiery tomes get you. And I'm guessing the vast majority of people would have been full i90 in at least one, if not more, jobs anyway after accruing around six months of Myth gear.

So, if you don't like or agree with my point, that's fine; however, that doesn't make it any less correct.

[ShinkuTachi]

Really? Then why were the EX Primals nerfed along with Coil then?

It's to give players another option of gear progression through, To Tussle with Gods & Primal Focus. Thereby, still falling in line with my stated point above. Gear progession leads to experiencing further plot oriented content, primal mounts do not.

EDIT: Also, doing Turns in or out of order comes down to individual choice. You also have some players that choose to skip past each and every piece of dialog throughout the game, so I don't see how that even matters.


EDIT DEUCE:

I just think you making claims that it is anything to do with plot is flat out wrong. What was the hardest thing we had to do for the plot in last batch of story quests, Leviathan HM? You're telling me that couldn't be done without an i95 Turn 5 weapon? That they had to nerf both Coil and EX Primals so people had their gear for mighty Leviathan HM. No, the nerfs are nothing to do with the plot, but if you still cannot see that I won't try and convince you anymore.

The ironic thing is people keep calling us "whingers" because we want the mounts to feel "special" when in fact it's not like that at all, it's actually the other way around. The majority, albeit not all, of the people arguing against this already have their special mount and are basically throwing a tantrum because they don't want other people to get it too. No one here is suggesting that the mounts just be handed out, that every Primal kill should yield a mount, we are offering to work for it. How would earning it by doing fifty, hundred, maybe more kills, be any less deserving than say...

If you don't like or agree with my point, that's fine; however, that doesn't make it any less correct. Newer gear allows people to experience newer plot oriented content (coil is part of that plot oriented content). One of the things this game has done with weapons is give us options, that's not a point that stands to be argued. Right now, for top tier content for example, we have the Tidal, the Atma~Novus, the weathered~unweathered, and the High Allagan. As of 2.3, we will also have Ramuh's available to us. That's eight total weapons we have a choice on. There has been a plethora of choice when it comes to weapons. The manner in which these weapons are obtained is loosened when new content comes (hence the EX primal nerf). We saw this when BCoB2 and new gear sets released in 2.2, and we will see this again when BCoB3 and new gear sets come out in 2.4.

Just keep in mind, even though I disagree, I'm not one of the ones name-calling and hurling insults.

[raelgun]

The ironic thing is people keep calling us "whingers" because we want the mounts to feel "special" when in fact it's not like that at all, it's actually the other way around. The majority, albeit not all, of the people arguing against this already have their special mount and are basically throwing a tantrum because they don't want other people to get it too. No one here is suggesting that the mounts just be handed out, that every Primal kill should yield a mount, we are offering to work for it. How would earning it by doing fifty, hundred, maybe more kills, be any less deserving than say...

You know, I was doing lev ex and got the kill pre guides or whatever, was in a learning group that were hammering our heads against the new content, awesome group of people that meshed in the end to get the kill, once we did, we went into farm mode, the mount dropped on this point, this was very early days, so hate to break it do you, the group did a damn good job to earn that drop appearing in the first place.

I actually not overly fussed about the special feel or if others dont have it, just saying you guys lack patience, Ive had my share of rare mount stories back in WOW, this doesnt bother me, was a reward for doing the content as we did it at the time.

[Barboron]

No, actually it's the opposite. People could theoretically (no matter how unlikely) get all five, now six, mounts in their very first attempt. Is that a grind to you? No, it's being rewarded just because the game decides so, no grind whatsoever. No one is asking for the mounts to be given up for nothing, it would just be nice to have an alternative to RNG. Whether you believe in good and bad luck or not, the fact is some people do just have flat out bad luck. We keep talking about the low drop rate but in theory someone could see the mount twenty, thirty times in a row, and still lose every time. That's just the cruel nature of RNG.

People keep talking about how rewards should be rare, but this is just a game. I'm not asking for a Purple Heart or an Academy Award here, I'm asking for an alternative method to obtain something which would make me enjoy the game more. As for those who are so vehemently against it, I can't think of many honest reasons why other than spite.

It doesn't matter what people could theoretically get or not get. I could theoretically win the lotto. Am I going to go bitch about that and say everybody should win the lotto? No, because you are buying into that much like you are buying into this game and the methods of reward.

And there are several mounts with an alternative to RNG, are they fun? NO! CNJ gets a mount from class quests. PLD and WAR get mounts from grinding 200 instances and that is definitely not fun, that I can guarantee from experience.

And you say again in "theory" someone could see it X amount of times. There are a lot of things that could or could not happen when things are random, that's why it's random. If someone has bad luck, tough. Not everything in the game is given by RNG and if you don't like RNG, get those other things. There are so many unicorns in this game already, are they really worth that much to you? I would love to have them, especially considering the mythology behind them, I did post in another thread about this (can be found here for anyone interested)

And just because you can't think of any other reasons other than spite as a reason to reward this in a method other than RNG, doesn't mean others can't. Sure, most of the time if you ask someone "Why?" I would assume they would most likely give an answer something along the lines of "'cause I said so!".

Either way, you don't have to get these mounts, they aren't the only mounts in the game, and other mounts are obtainable through non-RNG methods. If you want the ones that are obtained through RNG, that's tough.

The game is fine as is and then we are getting threads like yours. Just because the game isn't going the way you want it to, doesn't call for change.

[TeganLaron]

And just because you can't think of any other reasons other than spite as a reason to reward this in a method other than RNG, doesn't mean others can't. Sure, most of the time if you ask someone "Why?" I would assume they would most likely give an answer something along the lines of "'cause I said so.

And there you have it. Your reason for moaning and crying about people offering alternative methods to obtain the mounts is "cause I said so!" Right, that isn't spite at all is it? No one on the side of a grind method to get the mounts is throwing childish insults, that's all coming from your end. At the end of the day the simple fact is, no one can give a proper reason why there shouldn't be alternative methods. It all just boils down to "because more people will have it then." Erm, ok? And how does that affect you? Oh, you can't AFK in Mor Dhona 12 hours a day feeling special because you had enough skill to roll a 99.

As for you saying go get the other mounts instead, who says I'm not? I'm steadily working on the PLD one, and have all the beastmen quest related ones. What's wrong with people wanting a complete set? Attitudes like yours just because people would like a complete set of something which, shock horror, is not related to "OMG look at ma ilvl!" is pretty pathetic to be honest.

[Tridus1x]

And there are several mounts with an alternative to RNG, are they fun? NO! CNJ gets a mount from class quests. PLD and WAR get mounts from grinding 200 instances and that is definitely not fun, that I can guarantee from experience

So if isn't fun, why do you support the MMO grind? Because doing an instance 200 times is EXACTLY a MMO grind.

I think you are confused about what you even want.

Let me help you out. Mounts shouldn't be based on RNG. The end. Make it 100 kills or something like that. You want the grind, then support the actual grind.