DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Alcyon1]

@Nyyy Is that the only thing you read from my post? I said that if you're really underperforming, ok, I get it.... It can be frustrating. However if it's just a tiny bit to where there's no significant change except maybe a few extra minutes by the time you're done, then kicking someone or even complaining about it is a tad elitist.
Also, comparing an online game to football? Really?

I've played football quite a bit with friends as a hobby and guess what? I suck at it. No one ever bitches when I'm on their team, and no one has ever kicked me. Because there is nothing at stake, we have a good time and have good laughs.
Now as a job, when you're getting PAID to play well, then I'm guessing you can and will be kicked off a team if you just start sucking horribly.
Online games aren't just a hobby, they're a hobby you pay for. No one should be getting mistreated online and or excluded from content just because you're an elitist.

You know what you CAN do though? You can gtfo.

Most of us won't complain against a bad player in Brayflox or WP. But most of us won'twipe during 3 hours just because a tard DPS is stuck at 50% of the rest of the group and the DPS checks are not met. That's not being elitist to ask you to do the minimal DPS required to kill the boss. If you think we are elitist to not wanting to lose 3 hours just because someone is bad, then we are and we don't care.

And your example is the most stupid example ever. You play football with FRIENDS ? WE ARE NOT YOUR FUCKING FRIENDS ! Join a team of random strangers, suck and see if they don't complain when you are in their team.

[LetBloodline]

Most of us won't complain against a bad player in Brayflox or WP. But most of us won'twipe during 3 hours just because a tard DPS is stuck at 50% of the rest of the group and the DPS checks are not met. That's not being elitist to ask you to do the minimal DPS required to kill the boss. If you think we are elitist to not wanting to lose 3 hours just because someone is bad, then we are and we don't care.

And your example is the most stupid example ever. You play football with FRIENDS ? WE ARE NOT YOUR FUCKING FRIENDS ! Join a team of random strangers, suck and see if they don't complain when you are in their team.

Asking the DPS needed to pass the content is one right thing, asking 350dps for brayflox is one other thing

If you are doing a PF it's your choice, no one complain if you want to do a group with some requirement. Kick in DF for not get 350dps in brayflox is wrong

kick if you wipe for one person and that person won't improve after asking/explaining the problem is a necessity, be it tank healer or dps

[Alcyon1]

Asking the DPS needed to pass the content is one right thing, asking 350dps for brayflox is one other thing

If you are doing a PF it's your choice, no one complain if you want to do a group with some requirement. Kick in DF for not get 350dps in brayflox is wrong

kick if you wipe for one person and that person won't improve after asking/explaining the problem is a necessity, be it tank healer or dps

L2READ. /10char.

[Ehayte]

The most you get out of a DF group usually is "hi" at the start, and sometimes not even that, maybe a "GG" at the end. There's not much if any helping going on. Maybe a quick "Who wants to main tank" conversation. Those are not the people who will calmly and politely explain how to get better.

No, they are likely to see the bad numbers - and then type:

/fc lol, this DRG is doing 90 dps in Bray... horrible
FC_Mate_01 >>Are you guys actually getting through it?
/fc yeah - just a little slow.
FC_Mate_01 >>Are you going to ask him if he needs help?
/fc Well, if I do that, he will likely get pissed off at me, so no. It's all good though.

[Rydia13]

L2READ. /10char.

I think you're the one that needs to learn to read lol
No where in most posts have I mentioned it being ok for DPS to suck so bad it takes 3 hours to complete content xD idk why it's so hard for you people to understand my point. Let's try a more simple approach.

If DPS is oblivious, doesn't listen, is significantly holding group back.. Kick: OK!

If DPS is willing to learn, and isn't a HUGE burden..(ie. Unable to complete content due to failed dps check repeatedly)... Kick: NOT ok.

[Malric]

It's wanting to improve, to test yourself.

Actually if it were for only this purpose I'd have NO problems with parsers AT ALL.
If parsers measured YOUR DPS, what YOU do, and were NOT used to kick people from parties, tell others if they are good enough, and to determine what becomes server standards of needed DPS to be any good I'd care less. Heck, if they were built into the game and used only for that purpose, I'd use it too.

Though it's not... in fact I've never even seen a parser in any game (not saying they don't exist) that only measures YOUR dps.

The reality is they are not generally used for self improvement alone, they are not generally used to teach anyone else, they are used to justify one simple saying...

"You are the weakest link, goodbye!"

[Malric]

I want to do research. I want to test different pieces of gears.

With the limited end game gear choices and lack of material slots on dungeon drops this is meaningless past i90.

You look at an i110 piece of gear and compare it to any i90 and tell me if you really need help choosing.

How many i110 armor sets are there again?

The only use I could see for a parser beyond i90 is skill rotations in which the highest DPS rotations are often quite clear.

Parsers don't measure stuff like interrupts & silences, raising other players, songs to restore healers mp or tanks TP, proper use/timing on sleep, bio, eye for eye, agro reduction, or many of the other things that are just as important if not more than dps.

The only thing these types of skills do is lower DPS and if you can tell who is doing stuff like this you're smart enough to know a parsers limitations and that they are not needed nor an accurate depiction of a players skill.

[raelgun]

I know it's easier to assume than it is to state anything that exists outside your own little mind but let me recap this for you:

I don't use parsers
I choose my rotations based on skill times, damage of skills, mana cost & cooldowns
(not a damn thing to do with parsers)
I've never studied a damn thing with a parser

In Aion it was like WoW, you couldn't get into a serious end game fight without someone in the party broadcasting a parser.

My improvements were based on upgrades to my gear and learning the fights
(once again nothing to do with the parsers)

how can you prove this, when ever you state a theory, it needs to be tested, in the world of stats, maths, science and engineering, when theory is being developed it needs to be tested, and to gain hard evidence, you test and get a result to prove the theory or reiterate it.
As you dont use parsers, how can you prove that, me and others can do the same by just thinking of something to do, but it needs to be proved if it works, or improve upon it, and you havent given any hard evidence.

[psychotic_mage]

My group is mostly ps3 and ps4 players, only one of us uses a pc. He got a parser to help with the boss' hp to know when phases change. We have never kicked a pug for lack of dps. I can see how it can and would be used that way. I am competitive though and would like to know how I'm doing compared to others. They will never be officially supported because of the sheer ability they have to show low dps as that could lead to a person being kicked. Parsers don't take into account gear or movement needed that would affect melee and casters.

[Malric]

If DPS is oblivious, doesn't listen, is significantly holding group back.. Kick: OK!

If DPS is willing to learn, and isn't a HUGE burden..(ie. Unable to complete content due to failed dps check repeatedly)... Kick: NOT ok.

I 100% Agree!

(In DF)

If a DPS, Healer, or Tank is blatantly ignoring the party, not trying/listening, and is trolling your party I can see kicking them (though I do not know if SE agrees)

If a DPS, Healer, or Tank is trying and learning too slow, causing a run to fail because they're not that good or have bad gear, I don't care how many wipes it takes teach them or vote to abandon. If your can't teach and you lose vote, leave.

In duty finder that is their ONLY place to learn and no one has a right to tell anyone in there they aren't good enough to learn.

You want guaranteed success? Good luck! In PF it's your group, your call, who gives a crap and even there you will NOT guarantee a win parser or not.