DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Dwill]

You should read this "pro parser" topic a little better, especially early on.
It's FULL of people advocating that you should use them in DF to kick people.
This happens a lot in ex primals & coil.

No one in my FC uses a parser (I know them all personally IRL)
My last FC with hundreds active, different story.

I've seen partial premades vote kick in DF more than a dozen times already.
The number of times I've seen "bad dps" and then vote kick pop up is disgusting.

I am sure lots don't do this, I try to believe not everyone is a d-bag, but enough are that it's a problem.

Subjective and anecdotal evidence. Provide objective arguments and actual proof that this is as widespread as you claim.

With the limited end game gear choices and lack of material slots on dungeon drops this is meaningless past i90.

You look at an i110 piece of gear and compare it to any i90 and tell me if you really need help choosing.

How many i110 armor sets are there again?

The only use I could see for a parser beyond i90 is skill rotations in which the highest DPS rotations are often quite clear.

Parsers don't measure stuff like interrupts & silences, raising other players, songs to restore healers mp or tanks TP, proper use/timing on sleep, bio, eye for eye, agro reduction, or many of the other things that are just as important if not more than dps.

The only thing these types of skills do is lower DPS and if you can tell who is doing stuff like this you're smart enough to know a parsers limitations and that they are not needed nor an accurate depiction of a players skill.

There are hundreds of possible gear sets around the ilvl110 gear range and parsers actually do in fact gather all that information.

It is clear your knowledge of parsers is based on anecdotal evidence, subjective arguments so if I were you, I would refrain from talking about this topic since it is clear that your knowledge about parsers's capacity is highly limited and as such, it makes your credibility on the matter questionable.

So it's okay to waste the time of people who are paying for a service just because you don't want to learn how to play? That's asinine.

Exactly. Tanks and healers are already subjected to people's critics, which is what a lot of DPS are afraid of. DPS are not special snowflakes that shouldn't be criticized ever.

[Malric]

Subjective and anecdotal evidence.. blah blah blah

It's funny that all you pro parsers use this same lame comeback.

About as anecdotal and subjective as a parser determining a players skill as there is no parser that takes all variables of a given situation into play.

Yet you people get quiet as a mouse when presented with the idea of parsers that don't judge other people, just yourself.

I understand, a parser without "ego" enlargement isn't as attractive to elitists.

Goes to show what you really want them for, which is why I will enjoy watching the ban-hammer drop each time one of you is caught using one.

If you want your elitist bs, stay in PF & statics.
You don't want the possibility of loss, stay the heck out of DF!

Enjoy fight club... just don't forget the first rule of fight club... or do, I like the entertainment of QQ's when you get banned.

[LetBloodline]

bla bla bla... elitists... bla bla bla

strange statement said by who boasted that he could do it all without the parser and that they were all noobs if they could not do the same

Plus you are making the assumption that everybody is going to kick ppl in DF with parsers. You said yourself stay in PF.

But if they actwally put up a PF for getting a kill stated in comments, put the flags etc, and they fail due to one party member that didn't know his job and make everybody fail. Isn't in that case right to kick him out? He created the party, he set standards to enter and one player entered there without meeting that standard. This is something i really see happen 9 times out of 10 on PF. And the consequence is 85% of times the party to completly disband.

How was right what that player did?

[Malric]

Plus you are making the assumption that everybody is going to kick ppl in DF with parsers. You said yourself stay in PF.

I don't assume everyone will, I know "everyone" won't but already too many people do and more parsers = it will happen more (not less).

In PF you DO kick people! It's your group but you have to restart to replace them anyway.
You don't have requirements for C8 or C9, kick someone and then get a DF person to fill it.
You all fall out, kick who you want gone, look for replacement.

SE isn't going to change PF mechanics to make it easier for people mid raid to kick someone and get a replacement in there without them leaving.

[LetBloodline]

I don't assume everyone will, I know "everyone" won't but already too many people do and more parsers = it will happen more (not less).

In PF you DO kick people! It's your group but you have to restart to replace them anyway.
You don't have requirements for C8 or C9, kick someone and then get a DF person to fill it.
You all fall out, kick who you want gone, look for replacement.

SE isn't going to change PF mechanics to make it easier for people mid raid to kick someone and get a replacement in there without them leaving.

The problem is how i know who of the 4 dps that use classes i don't know and i never played is making us fail T4?

For your statement i guess i have the right to know wich one is underperforming

And now you'll be elitists and say that i must know all classes and be able to play my class at his fullest while i check how all other DPS are managing their class and if i'm not able to do that i should just shut up and get harassed by player that don't care about my need to clear T4 to get equip for second class cuz they don't know how to play a class that i'm not interested in, right?

Plus

I know "everyone" won't but already too many people do and more parsers = it will happen more

I don't agree. For me the ones that want to do it are alredy doing it and are really a low percentage.

What about give parser only personal in DF and global in PF?

[Dwill]

About as anecdotal and subjective as a parser determining a players skill as there is no parser that takes all variables of a given situation into play.

You've already shown in a previous post that you barely knew what data a parser gathers so I don't really think you can make such a claim. Parsers are a tool that will give you valid data, gather statistics and the likes therefore makes it a tool which can give you an obective viewpoint.

Yet you people get quiet as a mouse when presented with the idea of parsers that don't judge other people, just yourself.

At this point, I think you're reading only what you want to read. I suggest going back a few pages as quite a few people have stated that such a parser would still be welcome. As for myself, I would rather have a parser that gathers all the data that the one currently available can as it gives you a much wider range of data to work with.

I understand, a parser without e-peen enlargement isn't as attractive to elitists.

Goes to show what you really want them for, which is why I will enjoy watching the ban-hammer drop each time one of you is caught using one.

If you want your elitist bs, stay in PF & statics.
You don't want the possibility of loss, stay the heck out of DF!

Your post is full of bias and totally refuse to accept that a lot of people want parsers for various reasons. Some want one for themselves, some want one for their static group, some wants one for their DF/PF runs. And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with it.

You might claim that people will get harassed or that people want one to be "elitists" yet refuse to provide any sort of objective argument or any sort of data/proof, you only provide a subjective viewpoint and anecdotal evidences which aren't any proof or data of anything. Tanks and healers are already subjective to harassement as of now, DPS aren't anything more special than tanks or healers that they deserve to not be criticize. And if it so happens that certain DPS gets harassed, it will be dealt with the same way as it is right now, via a report for Harassement.

I'm not and I guarantee the majority of the game plus those at SE are not okay with parsers being used to kick people in DF.

Tanks and healers are already subjected to harassement in DF. What about them then ? Again, DPS are not special snowflakes.

It's funny that all you pro parsers use this same lame comeback.

You're the one making the claims, the burden of proof falls upon you. So I suggest that you provide meaningful proofs to back up your claims. If all you're going to do though is continue with the same rhetoric, then you're only going to end up hurting your credibility much more than it already has.

That's not true. DF has minimum ilvl requirements, and in some cases we can be confident that the ilvl required by DF is actually higher than what's required to clear the content.

Agreed. Best exemple I can think of is Titan Extreme. I really don't see a full group of i67 killing him, which is the requirement for him.

[Malric]

Some want one for themselves, some want one for their static group, some wants one for their DF/PF runs. And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with it.

You apparently are the one doing very selective reading. As I've said, private, statics, even PF, I don't care. I don't believe they have any place in DF at all.

you only provide a subjective viewpoint and anecdotal evidences which aren't any proof or data of anything

That is the most asinine statement. The existence of such proof can't exist like the evidence that a parser depicts skill.

Tanks and healers are already subjective to harassement

So because Tanks/Healers are wrongfully harassed, DPS should be too? Great argument!

You're the one making the claims, the burden of proof falls upon you.

You're the one asking for them to be added saying they won't be abused. That is your burden to prove.

[Dwill]

That is the most asinine statement. The existence of such proof can't exist like the evidence that a parser depicts skill.

If you can't prove it, that's not my problem. If you make a claim, you have to back it up.

You're the one asking for them to be added saying they won't be abused. That is your burden to prove.

Hmm, I wonder...

You should read this "pro parser" topic a little better, especially early on.
It's FULL of people advocating that you should use them in DF to kick people.
This happens a lot in ex primals & coil.

No one in my FC uses a parser (I know them all personally IRL)
My last FC with hundreds active, different story.

I've seen partial premades vote kick in DF more than a dozen times already.
The number of times I've seen "bad dps" and then vote kick pop up is disgusting.

I am sure lots don't do this, I try to believe not everyone is a d-bag, but enough are that it's a problem.

so let's see..

http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...n+of+proof?s=t
2. the obligation to establish a contention as fact by evoking evidence of its probable truth.

Yep. Your claim, therefore your burden of proof.

It's clear you are biased against parser without any proof to back up your claims and you've shown a few times that you don't even know about the stuff you're talking about. So here's my suggestion:

You can argue it semantically all you want. So give up while you're behind.

[Malric]

That's not true. DF has minimum ilvl requirements, and in some cases we can be confident that the ilvl required by DF is actually higher than what's required to clear the content.

Agreed. Best exemple I can think of is Titan Extreme. I really don't see a full group of i67 killing him, which is the requirement for him.

@Dwill - Since you're such a fan of proof. How about proof you don't even read before you reply. You replied in automatic agreement to a statement then totally disagreed with it.

Viridiana said she thinks the DF requirement is higher than what's actually needed and you agreed by saying in your example it's not high enough.

Yet both say iLvL don't matter.

We may not agree on the end results of parsers effects on the game but at least I read your comments before replying to them.

You just banter and carry on the same arguments regardless if they even apply to my views.

[raelgun]

It's funny that all you pro parsers use this same lame comeback.

About as anecdotal and subjective as a parser determining a players skill as there is no parser that takes all variables of a given situation into play.

Its been said to you time and time again, parsers tell you everything that happens in a fight then just damage done, you are just ignoring this cos you have no come back for this cos you cant prove it or refuse to accept it, its called denial, you might want to think on it.