Ramuh: A History and Speculation

[Morningstar1337]

That's actually not correct - Louisoix ran a completely separate group of Sharlayan scholars that he and the other Archons originally belonged to called 'The Circle of Knowing' - they were completely separate from the Path of the Twelve and originally had nothing to do with them. It was only after the Calamity and Louisoix's disappearance did the rest of the Circle seek out Minfilia "and others with the Echo" and joined them, Minfilia offering to amalgamate the Path with the Circle, leading to the formation of the new organization, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. Y'shtola actually mentions this in ARR when you first join the Scions.

I see. Then I got nothing.

[Saikou]

"The Light and Dark given fore when Man was born." Context, old man, can I have some!? I'm glad he gets a voice actor. This could just be a generic condemnation of "the enlightened races," or a small snippet of some greater revelation about bygone eras. Leviathan felt insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It was what the Sahagin had learned to do from the Ascians that stuck out in Leviathan's story. I am hopeful that Ramuh, like his other 3 friends, will be a bit more talkative. Ifrit and Garuda articulated well their view of the current situation, and Titan was quite eloquent about his opinion of the injustice the Lominsans had visited upon the Kobolds. Then Leviathan was summoned by a shaman with matrix moves, but had very little to say for himself outside of his generic "tainted of the light" comment at the start of his fight. I hope the old man proves to be as wizened as he appears, even if we do have to put him down.

-Defenders of Eorzea, Patch 2.3 Trailer-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYBu4dpZJBo

[WellFooled]

Not all primals temper their beastmen worshippers, though. Leviathan for example, is freely worshipped by the Sahagin.

The Sahagin might worship freely, but the hundreds of "drowned" sailors do not. But the point I was trying to make is that tempering is evil, regardless of who its used on. There may be Primals that don't need to temper their beast tribes (though, I have no doubt that they would if the tribe stopped worshiping them of their own free will).

This is even more so the case for Titan...Their is no evidence he has tempered any Kobolds, ever.

I can't argue with you there, Titan may be an exception, but Ramuh is not. He blatantly tempers people in mass and so I consider that an act of evil. I'm not saying there can't ever be an excuse to (like you brought up, Titan may have tempered adventurers in self defense before), but it would have to be a pretty crazy situation for me not to agree that he needs to be taken out.

[Enkidoh]

It might not be exactly canon now, given 1.0's shutdown and general retconning by ARR, but evidence exists of never implemented quest dialogue for Titan in version 1.0 that seemed to show that Titan indeed tempers (I think it was either Noloetazier or Annoymoose who posted the information so they know more about it than me - I'm just merely repeating info they mentioned that I read) - from what I remember it appears that the plan was for the player to be sent to investigate reports of Titan being summoned and arrive at the Navel in the middle of a showdown between the Lord of Crags and the infamous Company of Heroes, some of whom Titan apparently kills outright and others he tempers (judging by the dialogue).

Incidentally this would explain why the Company is so downright hesitant in ARR about allowing the player to fight him - they saw only too well just how utterly dangerous he was, and not just from a 'he killed our friends' point of view. They saw their own be turned into mindless kobold thralls, and just didn't want the player to suffer the same fate.

In any event the Titan encounter and connected quest line in 1.0 were never implemented, so it can't really be taken as 'conclusive' proof, although it is still interesting none the less. Especially as it seems that only Ifrit really tempers zealously and without any second thoughts, while the other Primals just seem to rely on sheer brute force to take care of any threats against their 'kin'.

[Alenore]

I'm actually pretty certain the fact Titan tempers is said during the MSQ. I'll have to re-check the cutscene and hope it's in one of them.

"The Light and Dark given fore when Man was born." Context, old man, can I have some!? I'm glad he gets a voice actor. This could just be a generic condemnation of "the enlightened races," or a small snippet of some greater revelation about bygone eras. Leviathan felt insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It was what the Sahagin had learned to do from the Ascians that stuck out in Leviathan's story. I am hopeful that Ramuh, like his other 3 friends, will be a bit more talkative. Ifrit and Garuda articulated well their view of the current situation, and Titan was quite eloquent about his opinion of the injustice the Lominsans had visited upon the Kobolds. Then Leviathan was summoned by a shaman with matrix moves, but had very little to say for himself outside of his generic "tainted of the light" comment at the start of his fight. I hope the old man proves to be as wizened as he appears, even if we do have to put him down.

-Defenders of Eorzea, Patch 2.3 Trailer-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYBu4dpZJBo

The same line in the French trailer says "Les hommes apportent la souillure et le conflit, où qu'ils aillent!", which can be translated into "Humans bring taint and strife wherever they go".
I think that line means more "There was no need for the words "Evil" or "Good" until you came here and messed up with everything".

[melflomil]

The Sahagin might worship freely, but the hundreds of "drowned" sailors do not. But the point I was trying to make is that tempering is evil, regardless of who its used on. There may be Primals that don't need to temper their beast tribes (though, I have no doubt that they would if the tribe stopped worshiping them of their own free will).



I can't argue with you there, Titan may be an exception, but Ramuh is not. He blatantly tempers people in mass and so I consider that an act of evil. I'm not saying there can't ever be an excuse to (like you brought up, Titan may have tempered adventurers in self defense before), but it would have to be a pretty crazy situation for me not to agree that he needs to be taken out.

titan is evil, 70% of the adventurers get destroyed by him. Hence all the stuck at navel extreme for months threads.

[WellFooled]

titan is evil, 70% of the adventurers get destroyed by him. Hence all the stuck at navel extreme for months threads.

I've been sitting on the Titan Extreme quest for weeks now because I'm too scared ._.'

[Catapult]

I *do* remember her just being the "temporary" acting leader being a point though).

Call it a hunch but... could it have been Warburton who founded the path? And with her refusing to take the full Antecedent's title as long as his body remained missing? (v1.0 L15 Ul'dah quest) But with a new organization that could have changed?
/speculation

[Saikou]

Alenore, that's awesome. I wish we could get a German speaker in here to see what he's saying in that version. And as for me... My Japanese is a bit rusty, but I will see if I can make sense of that version.

I fail at Japanese forever, but here is what I heard and what I interpret it to mean:

Sou sonna hito wa itsukara yami o kakaeru you ni natta
そうそんな人は何時から闇を抱えるようになった

"So it is, of old, that Man has gained the capacity for darkness."

This is entirely by 200 level japanese combined with some googling.

"sou sonna" Combination of "I see/understand" and "This." It could be a preposition and fluff as I've translated it, or it could be an expression of understanding in response to a comment that we didn't get to hear.

"Yami" Noun. Darkness. The first word that could clearly be recognized in context.

"Hito" Noun. People. Probably the next easiest thing.

"Itsukara" This one is difficult due to the construction that comes next. Literal definition would be "how long" or "from when." The "How long" definition would work if Ramuh was asking a question, we might get "For how long will man's capacity for darkness have increased?" But it's not a question. The sentence is also in the past tense. Therefore, I infer that the time spoken of must be in the past by default. And that makes it easier to map the rest of the sentence to what he has said in English and French

"you ni natta" A past tense grammatical construction concerning changes in possibilities or personal abilities when used in connection with a specific action. In this case:

"kakaeru" Verb. To hold. To have. To employ/hire. It has to be definition #2 because PopJisyo has a special note on #2 saying that this usage particularly applies to negative things. Being the bearers of darkness is certainly a problem. If not in our eyes, certainly in Ramuh's.

Alenore, I see you added an exclamation point to the end of what Ramuh said due to his rising intonation in the French version. The old man's voice is quite calm throughout his soliloquy in both the Japanese and English versions.

It's interesting how these translation and localization differences make this game all the more interesting for us lore geeks. I'm reminded of the whole "blade of might" / "blade of darkness" difference. It amuses me that SE and the localization team seems to pick and choose when it uses the light/dark dualism as opposed to something completely different. I believe the blade of darkness in that prophecy was referring to The Black Wolf in particular and Garleans by extension, something the devs and the localization team may have thought we couldn't make the connection on? Insinuating a blade of might made that line of the prophecy too easy to decode.

[Catapult]

I've been caught napping. I suppose I should do the honours.

Ramuh:
Zurst euer alle verschwinden. Mit die Welt nur bringen die sie ersehnt.
First you must all disappear. You bring the world that they desire.
(Only 70% confident on what Ramuh is saying. I'm having trouble with his diction against the loud music. XD )