Ramuh: A History and Speculation

[Alenore]

snip

I was talking about Titan with Moose, and... We never saw Titan actually attacking anyone. I guess in Japan, a big bad due under a mountain provoking earthquakes must be scary, but I don't even think they ever told him to attack Limsa. Also, I doubt provoking earthquakes or waking up a volcano from a mountain, when you live in said mountain, is the best ideas the kobold could have. It's borderline suicidal.

They probably just summoned him to force Limsa to respect the treaty. Some form of deterence, if you want : I have a big bad rock dude ready to smash your faces if you keep attacking us and coming on our territory. Ramuh is the same, as he's here to protect the Sylphlands, but the Sylphs didn't re-summon him after the first time.

[StarDrake]

That's actually not entirelly correct - tempering is shown to actually be done purely on the whim of the Primal, with Ifrit being the one to do it most zealously. Garuda only tried doing it on the player after all her other options at subduing the player had failed (ala, brute force), and she never attempted it again (for instance, she could have easily tempered Gaius when he waltzed in and slaughtered the Ixal who summoned her, but she didn't). No, tempering is a very conscious choice by the Primal and not a side-effect of their summoning, as it's what the game shows and tells us.

Except... not.

Maybe. Possibly.

Frixio is really godsdamned vague about this, at least in English.

I recently looked over this particular bit of dialogue, so it's fresh in my mind:

"Hmmm... This one well knows and respects horned one Kan-E-Senna. Be assured: like walking ones of Gridania, these ones have no desire for conflict.

These ones resorted to summoning Lord Ramuh to protect the wood from imperial ones. This one counseled against doing so, but was not heeded.

Against this one's wishes, Lord Ramuh was summoned... and all those ones who took part became touched ones.

These ones want so desperately to turn touched ones back to normal ones, but did not know how─and still do not know.

Touched ones, meanwhile, wanted to turn these ones into touched ones, and did know how... So this one fled to Little Solace with all those ones who did not wish to be bound to Lord Ramuh.

But walking ones of Gridania need not fear touched ones or Lord Ramuh. Unlike other primal ones, Lord Ramuh is not callous and cruel.

So long as walking ones do not trespass on these ones' ancestral homeland, where touched ones reside, walking ones will not suffer thunderous judgment."

Frixio's phrasing suggests, ultimately, that the tempering of the sylphs involved in the pre-2.0 summoning of Ramuh were "touched" by the act of doing so, rather than by Ramuh himself as a conscious act. There's possibly room to say that Ramuh tempered all and sundry present on being summoned... but why would he? All of the sylphs involved already believe in him and serve him, and indeed the act only serves to drive a wedge between parts of sylphdom, as Papalymo points out:

"By way of an addendum, mortals who are tempered come to take on the qualities embodied by the primal in question. In the case of the sylphs, Ramuh's influence has made them fiercely protective of their homeland.

[... The abductions? A fine question!] The abductions are, I believe, an expression of the tempered sylphs' desire for reconciliation─another quality traditionally associated with Ramuh. In the crudest manner imaginable, they seek to bring their fellows back into the fold. A timely reminder that the challenges posed by each primal are unique."

So while the sylphs are trying to reconcile (if rather crudely), it seems a little odd that Ramuh would knowingly create such a wedge in his chosen people to begin with, seeing as how reconciliation (and its result, harmony) are part of his portfolio. The situation makes substantially more sense, however, if the Touching of the sylphs present at the summoning was involuntary.

Of course, there's another rather big bomba in there - apparently the sylphs, at least, are capable of applying Ramuh's Touch to one another without the direct intervention of Ramuh. This is something none of the other beastmen tribes have been stated as being capable of doing. The game doesn't elaborate at all, so it's hard to say what kind of mechanism is at work here.

Either way, it's quite likely a lot of this will be more clear come the morrow - there's enough room both ways to say that "conversion", in whatever name it is given, can be involuntary, voluntary, or both, perhaps depending on the Primal in question.

What I'm really curious to see come tomorrow is this: what prompts the Touched to summon Ramuh again, and apparently in sufficient force that the Scions have to respond and Ramuh becomes aggressive? Is the remainder of the garrison at Castrum Occidens doing something? Does it have to do with the previous section of the 2.3 MQ which seems as though it will deal with some kind of Ul'dahn civil conflict (even though Ul'dah is way the hell outside of Ramuh's Sphere Of Giving A Damn)? Does this have to do with what the Ascians have been doing with the other Great Elements, whom Ramuh has traditionally been associated with in Final Fantasy titles, and thus he feels he needs to intercede (in a kind of reverse of the situation in FFVI)?

What I'm trying to say is, this patch is gonna own.

[Alice_89th]

What I'm really curious to see come tomorrow is this: what prompts the Touched to summon Ramuh again, and apparently in sufficient force that the Scions have to respond and Ramuh becomes aggressive? Is the remainder of the garrison at Castrum Occidens doing something? Does it have to do with the previous section of the 2.3 MQ which seems as though it will deal with some kind of Ul'dahn civil conflict (even though Ul'dah is way the hell outside of Ramuh's Sphere Of Giving A Damn)? Does this have to do with what the Ascians have been doing with the other Great Elements, whom Ramuh has traditionally been associated with in Final Fantasy titles, and thus he feels he needs to intercede (in a kind of reverse of the situation in FFVI)?

We will see in a few hours, but I'm still convinced that we (the 5 races, player or not) will force Ramuh into agression...

The only way I can imagine him to become is agrresive is by someone, somehow, triggering something. Either by doing something that enrages him (and/or the touched Sylph), or by deciding that now is the time to deal with his threat and taking the battle to him.

But we shall see. Who knows what will really happen

[Morningstar1337]

Well as of "Levin an Impression" Ramuh is officaily comfirmed as the Token Good Teammate, or at least a neutral primal rather than the unambiguously evil Garuda and Ifrit

[Alenore]

Well we already knew that. But...

Ramuh was pretty much ready to kill us, before he saw we had the crystal of Lightning (found during the MSQ), and decided to give us a chance only because we managed to best him. He even said everyone would die, if we were to fail.
I wouldn't call that "neutral".

[Saikou]

The old man doesn't know whence the darkness came. It were only a question. Curious, that. And all that was translated was essentially said by the man at some point or other. Lack of context did not do much to mangle the old man's words. And now I partake of his trial... Angry, annoyed, and righteous was he. Some may say that he was harsh, but to my mind he was true to what we were told of him. Truly the closest that we might say there was to a "good" primal. I wonder if Titan would be the same way if the Limsans hadn't made of themselves oathbreakers.