DIP, DUCK, DIVE, DODGE!

[Morticous]

Dip will give you tongue/lip cancer.

[Defmetal]

We had this in DDO and Age of Conan.
It doesn't work very well because of latency issues, and it hurts communication without voice chat because your character becomes idle when you begin talking.

[Evangela]

Look at FF12 and FF13 and see how much Final Fantasy changed

they need to do it that way or die like the dinosaur

if you ppl don't like it, fine, just play FF1 - FF11 over and over

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

But they argue how much tera is better than ffxiv

No, they do not.

They contend that Tera has a good combat system.

You're just jumping to conclusions, or looking to turn this thread into a "FFXIV vs X" war, or whatever I don't even care.

You're either trolling or you lack reading comprehension. Either way, fine whatever believe what you want because you probably stopped reading this response three posts ago.

[Dyne]

I'm not saying to make the game like Tera. I'm saying a game that can easily rival Tera, and offer that little extra oomph to come out on top and have that Final Fantasy touch to it. I loved FFXI, but keeping it exactly like FFXI will kill FFXIV. It's even worse than FFXI now, it's easy mode, pick your difficulty, zerg fest, don't socialize, with lackluster abilities and spells. Look at FFXI's tornado vs. FFXIV's tornado, it looks like a green fart mist vs a giant green top. At this point, FFXIV copying FFXI cannot even compete against FFXI, what makes you think it can compete with Tera, PSO2, SWTOR, just to name a few?

[Dyne]

We had this in DDO and Age of Conan.
It doesn't work very well because of latency issues, and it hurts communication without voice chat because your character becomes idle when you begin talking.

It really is not a problem, even without voice chat. The auto attack ensures that you aren't really idle. Back in ffxi, when we are fighting Gods that required extensive kiting, we didn't use voice chat, yet our leaders still barked orders while kiting, healing, or attacking. Everyone revealed their tp and if their abilities are ready to go, and managed to set off skillchains and magic bursts(maybe you have no idea what those are if you didn't play ffxi) just fine.

Skillchains happens when you fire up the right weapon skill combination 2-3 seconds after the first guy uses his and it produces and explosive elemental effect that causes extra damage to the mob. Magic bursts are much stronger and less resisted magic damage that you can inflict on the mob when the skillchain effect goes off, you have to time it just right so your spell goes off before that big elemental ball disappears. This was the greatest joy to ffxi that is missing in ffxiv and not present at all in any of the action rpgs.

Now, combine skillchain + magic bursts + solo combos + auto attack + action rpg elements (jumping, dodging, backflipping, etc...) and we will have a game worthy of being online for 10 years.

[mikefmc]

No, they do not.

They contend that Tera has a good combat system.

You're just jumping to conclusions, or looking to turn this thread into a "FFXIV vs X" war, or whatever I don't even care.

You're either trolling or you lack reading comprehension. Either way, fine whatever believe what you want because you probably stopped reading this response three posts ago.

Well you might as well quit. It will never have that combat system,and to expect it to.... Oh geez I don't even know. Yeah just quit

[Dekken]

I wish there was a dislike button.

Either FFXIV is an Action MMO or a traditional strategic MMO. FFXIV will not be both so stop thinking it. FFXIV's also not going to be an Action MMO. The dev team is gearing the game toward the traditional style like FFXI. Play FFXIV or wait for a Kingdom Hearts MMO.

There will be no dodge, there will be no roll. If the gods are good there will be no jump.

I could hug you. I won't, but I just want you to know I could.

[Murugan]

So instead of a system where you can design encounters and play styles around a really limitless ability system like in traditional MMO's which are apparently dead, "next generation" MMO's allow you to dodge out of the way of abilities.

Okay, so I can do that right now in FFXIV with several mob's abilities as is and I wouldn't say it is the highlight of XIV's admittedly lackluster combat system nor is spamming my basic attack and as a pugilist I even have probably the most interesting set of basic attacks. I just don't think more of that type of gameplay is the answer. I know unreleased MMO's are "totally awesome and revolutionary", but I think the reality of those systems is that once the novelty of that "action" wears off it doesn't really do much to enhance gameplay.

Now personally what I would rather see were better and more varied abilities, and better encounter designs which require different approaches with a variety of tools and interactions between people in the group. That is what truly defines good combat in an MMO, not how "flashy" it is, "flashiness" is generally nothing but a distraction from something's lack of substance.

[Dyne]

So instead of a system where you can design encounters and play styles around a really limitless ability system like in traditional MMO's which are apparently dead, "next generation" MMO's allow you to dodge out of the way of abilities.

Okay, so I can do that right now in FFXIV with several mob's abilities as is and I wouldn't say it is the highlight of XIV's admittedly lackluster combat system nor is spamming my basic attack and as a pugilist I even have probably the most interesting set of basic attacks. I just don't think more of that type of gameplay is the answer. I know unreleased MMO's are "totally awesome and revolutionary", but I think the reality of those systems is that once the novelty of that "action" wears off it doesn't really do much to enhance gameplay.

Now personally what I would rather see were better and more varied abilities, and better encounter designs which require different approaches with a variety of tools and interactions between people in the group. That is what truly defines good combat in an MMO, not how "flashy" it is, "flashiness" is generally nothing but a distraction from something's lack of substance.

Yes you can "dodge" right now, but do you notice it or you just see it in the chat log every once in awhile? You can also run away, when the mob is about to body slam on you or about to shoot you with lightning, but what if you can do it in a more elegant, better looking, faster way?

You can mention all those other games with jump and dodge all you want and how they failed, but you need to understand that those games only have the action rpg elements to it and not the "final fantasy touch". You swing a sword and thats it. You cast a spell and thats it. You use an ability and thats it. Nothing happens before, after, or in between. FFXI had the skillchain and magic bursts. FFXIV has the battle regimen system. I am just asking to combine everything + action rpg elements. It is not that complicated. It is not Traditional vs Action RPG. I am asking why it can't be both and then some.

Before you go over your head, allow me to show exactly what I want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEbR...eature=related
That is Fantasy Earth Zero, a square enix made mmorpg that was short lived, made around 2005-2006, a 50 vs 50 pvp with very little pve elements. The controls are exactly how it is in FFXIV, Except you can jump and dodge. It's got the action bar, just like ffxiv, but in the top right with only 10 actions. It uses both the keyboard+mouse and the controller. I do not see how they can't implement this concept here. It's not a super fancy dodge, just a simple hop to the left or right, and it doesn't guarantee that you are unscathed after dodging.