DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Dwill]

So you're telling me that Blizzard & Trion implemented an in-game parser like the one you demanding for? Where your dps is ranked among your party members or are you talking about 3rd party programs/mods?

Answer what I requested, you keep dodging it, tell me a scenario where a parser was crucial for a game, this means that it actually was added in a game.

Neither nor Blizzard nor Trion actually built an in-game parser, neither am I demanding one off of SE. I want SE to allow the use of them so that people can actually talk about it in game without fear of getting banned therefore allowing under performing people to keep under performing, sometimes not even to their knowledge. In the case of WoW, in-game meters and parsers have been used by literally millions of people and I can't even count the case of harassment I've witnessed on one-hand during 6-7 years of playing the game.

[Dwill]

Do you understand that your so called solid arguments are isolated experiences? You keep saying they will be for better but you haven't shown any proof of it, all I've read are personal experiences of WHY you think having a parser is necessary...

www.worldoflogs.com

If you can't understand how much useful this can be when raiding, then the whole pro/anti parser thing is above you.

By the way never reference Wikipedia again please, it's terrible practice that must stop, in the end only discredits your arguments.

If it discredits my argument, then this is because its wrong. So, how is it wrong ? All the arguments you and the anti-parser people have been using are fallacies that hold no weight. Even now, you're using a fallacy with telling me to not use Wikipedia. Can you actually build an argument ?

[Exstal]

People are still on the bandwagon of Wikipedia is not a good source of information? What are they? Living in 2001? It's time to get out of your bubble and use your brain.

[ParadiseCircus]

...

So now you're completely excluding ps4 players, please tell me how not using a parser is an advantage if they allowed 3rd pt tools for a PC user.

The simple fact of not seeing any MMO actually implementing this option is the best argument, but sadly you've shown me that you only see the game from your perspective while Square Enix must see it from different points.

The WoW era is over, get over yourself please, FFXIV won't ever be like it oh wait.... do we really have to discuss why FFXIV is a casual game?

If you want to be an elitist then go for it, just don't tell anyone you're using a parser, keep in mind there's a big difference between being an elitist & actually being elite :P

People are still on the bandwagon of Wikipedia is not a good source of information? What are they? Living in 2001? It's time to get out of your bubble and use your brain.

Trust Wikipedia not your doctor!

[Drachnyen]

You know what was FAR worse than any parser in WoW? gearscore! Which we already have in the game with avg ilvl and that only gives you an idea of roughly how much dps they should be doing and allows people to discriminate based on a number that doesn't actually mean much.

Parsers allow you to get meaningful data and then use that data in meaningful ways that benefit the group, not just dps but tanks and healers too. You can check what hit the tank, when it hit and for how much damage. You can then check if a CD was used before, if not did they have one off CD? if one was on CD can they save it for that specific ability or we we need to ajuust the healing to maybe apply a stoneskin/adlo just before it comes?

You can do this without but it takes FAR longer to piece this all together when at the click of a button you can just check.

I played WoW for 6 years and in all that time the amount of harassment due to parsers was negligible(people don't need parsers to be a douche), in fact the use of parsers allowed many people(including myself) who were massively under performing to be either on par or exceed what is expected of them.

That brings me to group roles, as alot of people have already said it's pretty easy to point fingers at tanks and/or healers but trying to pinpoint which of the dps isn't pulling their weight isn't an easy task. As a dps player my role in a party is to deal as much damage to the opponents as possible while also dealing with the mechanics, if i'm not doing that i'm a hindrance to 7 other people. Now spin that round to the role of a healer they are charged with keeping people alive while dealing with the mechanics just like everybody else, if people are dealing with mechanics and yet still dying the healer/s are at fault and they are a hindrance to 6/7 other people if they don't attempt to fix it. Right now there's thousands of players that could(and do) see immediate benefits from having access to parse data and then there's thousands of lazy players that are able to hide that they can't be bothered to learn their class and quite frankly I don't want to play with a lazy player and before anyone calls me an elitist thinking i'm above the "casual filth" i've sat for hours and coached people who wanted to learn and improve, people who just watched me hitting a training dummy and without directly saying they were using a parser said something like "I saw how much damage you did", they wanted to know how they could improve their damage to be more in line with the gear they have and I have time for those people who want to learn and i'm always thanked for it.

[Ashkendor]

Anti-parsers are fear mongering the issue without any argument whatsoever.

Honestly, I'm not anti-parser at all and what I posted about people using it to harass others wasn't any kind of fear mongering or evidence of anything in particular.. It was merely meant to illustrate what I myself believe *could* be SE's thought process behind not implementing this themselves. The game has a wide appeal to both casual and hardcore players, so from a business standpoint they're going to tend to do what alienates the least amount of people - in this case, that seems to be not implementing a parser. *shrugs*

I personally don't care either way. I'm a paladin. I *know* my DPS sucks. :3

[scarebearz]

You know what was FAR worse than any parser in WoW? gearscore! Which we already have in the game with avg ilvl and that only gives you an idea of roughly how much dps they should be doing and allows people to discriminate based on a number that doesn't actually mean much.

Agree 100%

A good example if this is when I made my alt BLM.

I was ilvl72 and trying to get a Garuda Ex party at this ilvl it was very difficult, all PF party's were i78+ and only 1 person in 5 or so who I asked, let me join. I told them if they parse, please check my dps and if my dps is in the bottom 2 for the first kill, they should kick me. We farmed it and I got my Caster Ring.

For Titan Ex.... I was i73 now and i asked like 7/8 different PF leaders, but none would take me at i73. All wanted atleast i80+ most asking for i85 lol.

I saw someone looking for a DPS for Titan Ex Sell Runs, I joined this party (ilvl was not asked) and proceeded to Farm my Caster Earring and Bracelet from Titan and Ifrit, while in a sell group and being paid 100k per kill.

Total madness lol and all due to the silly ilvl system.

[Skyl1n3]

Oh wow, so now people are comparing Gear ilvl to Parsers in-terms of segregation to try and continue the argument...

[scarebearz]

Oh wow, so now people are comparing Gear ilvl to Parsers in-terms of segregation to try and continue the argument...

They will be used for worse more than they are for better, END OF DISCUSSION!

If it was end of discussion, why are you still posting?

[Skyl1n3]

If it was end of discussion, why are you still posting?

Because it's obvious that *certain* people can't get it through their thick skulls: