DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Dwill]

I understand tanks & healers anger since their flaws can be easily spotted compared to DPS ones but I honestly think a DPS meter won't work that well since the equality you're demanding will end up adding more toxicity towards the end game content.

We should be looking for another solution & I do like the idea of having your own personal parser where people could be more conscious about their damage & even SE could show you a comparative of what your AVG should be for your job/class.

That argument is used often and I'm not saying it never happens but it is by far not as common as people are trying to portrait it. Meters have been used in the most popular MMOs with great success and having much more pros massively outweighs the con.

[ParadiseCircus]

That argument is used often and I'm not saying it never happens but it is by far not as common as people are trying to portrait it. Meters have been used in the most popular MMOs with great success and having much more pros massively outweighs the con.

Right now we're at a point where parsers have a really bad rep among casuals, even if many games use it, casuals usually are not familiar with them, we are talking about FFXIV specifically, context really takes a big role when making this kind of decisions (Community wise), I would not have said anything about them if they had been introduced from the beginning but right now I do not think it would be a smart move by SE, adding in-game parser where you're ranked.

[AniCelestine]

I don't have any idea how easy this would be to do: a party option, similiar to votekick. For example, someone iniates a question "do we allow dps meter/parser in this party" if even one says no, then it won't be able for use thus it wouldn't get abused in PF parties, but when you are with your friends, you all agree and it's yours to use for that dungeon run/trial etc.

To me that would be a good solution, but I don't know wether it can be even implemented without making changes to the current systems.

[Atreides]

Right now we're at a point where parsers have a really bad rep among casuals, even if many games use it, casuals usually are not familiar with them, we are talking about FFXIV specifically, context really takes a big role when making this kind of decisions (Community wise), I would not have said anything about them if they had been introduced from the beginning but right now I do not think it would be a smart move by SE, adding in-game parser where you're ranked.

Thats mostly because said "casuals" don't understand the meaning of a parser.
They view it as bad thing because it's used against them by some people but what they don't understand is that it's mostly rightly so because they really underperform sometimes, if they would see their own numbers they would be able to fix it without having others telling you to.

The most fun aspect of a DPS is dishing out as much damage as your job possibly can (while still fulfilling your support roles in case of a bard) and be an asset to your group.
A parser is only helping with that and people can actually see their real numbers, some people are so adamant that parsers are a bad thing and I can see where they are coming from if it was used to tell them how bad they are.
Instead they could use a parser themselves, improve on it and pull their weight! It's already enough if they do moderate damage, no one is expecting randoms to be exceptional but if you do 1/3 of the damage you're suppose to do it hurts not only you but the whole group.

I used to hate parsers too back in the day, I also was told off because of my low numbers and started to be ignorant about it.
Just out of curiousity I started using one back then in WoW and never went back, I started to see a difference, became good and after a while I turned into a top DPS I was never told off for underperforming since then.

In FFXIV I started by asking others to tell me my numbers and try to improve on it, every time I reached a higher number in an encounter they told me so and I slowly figured whats right and whats wrong.
So you don't even need a parser yourself, if someone tell you you're underperforming he might aswell help you to improve, I know I do when I see someone that could need a hand.

[sheepysheepy]

as a console player 90% of the time, yes, so much yes.

so much of mmorpg's in the end is about data, gathering it, analysing it, sharing it.

instead of a dozen 3rd party parsers that all give different numbers, it would so much better to have an official one that can actually be trusted.

doesn't have to be there all the time, could be for 8-man stuff only, or partyleaders could have the option for turning it off&on

i played smn for a while on playstation but i was in a couple of groups where we failed dps checks on garuda/ifrit ex, and i stopped playing, because i don't know if it was my fault or not, i don't wanna ruin it for 7 other people that may have been doing fine, so i just wont touch dps classes anymore

[Nicobo]

I welcome and support DPS meter.
But I seriously doubt it will be happened, when they decided not to show iLV for those reasons... ^^;

[Maddonious]

Im pro pharser!

I find it helps more then it hurts and due to the increasing difficulty of fights due to the bad players/rejects. Some fights that are easy become very hard since the underperforming players don't understand where they should be standing at in terms of dps/rotations and pharsers help all that.

Sure you will get those jerks with or without pharser, its nature.

Also for those people in this thread who say "only show our own numbers at end" that will be almost as useless as not having one. If you don't compare your numbers with other classes/comrades then how will you know where the limit is of your classes capabilities? Are they gonna have some number that shows them the average dps in that run for their class? I am aware it can cause confidence issues if it happens but it can also create the burning desire to out perform your rival, to push yourself further, to overcome them!

[Zaero]

Personally, I'm against them for the following reason:

While they can be used for good (usually finding ways to improve one's game), I could see this going toxic. If I wanted to play a game where everything was about the numbers churned out, I'd go play WoW (which ironically is the very reason why I've never played it). However, it's also a symptom of a bigger problem. How can one improve if instead of going "have you tried X and Y?" it becomes "You're only doing 290 dps. Come back when you can do 350". As a BLM, I hate fights like Titan, since I don't get to attack as much as other classes (movement based and whatnot), so I'm sure on parsers I'm always coming in last.

That said, I like the idea of a personal DPS meter (where the number is for only you), or a simulated measure system (imagine they set up a Titan fight where there is an auto tank, and it plays out the fight with just you dpsing Titan and getting your numbers that way - simulating an "ideal" environment). That way, you aren't getting numbers in a actual fight, so it can help avoid the "member" measuring contests (since there's already plenty of those). I could just see the PF comments now (which range from amusing to toxic as is). However, I'd still be worried that this would turn into another player based barrier to endgame content that ultimately could hurt the game community versus making better players (try giving advice in lowbie roulettes nowadays).

While I understand the idea is to say "I have to do better!" it doesn't make the game fun if everyone's turning on you over not hitting hard enough (at least fitting their perceived notion of what imaginary deciding line you should be hitting).

[Skyl1n3]

They will be used for worse more than they are for better, END OF DISCUSSION!

[Yahavage]

I want parsers added.

It's just sad when I out-dps a geared bard in Haukke HM when I'm on sch.

Granted, I didn't need the parser to tell me such, the guy was engaging once the mobs are half dead, however I am of the view that if people have it visible on screen, they will strive to perform better. Some people might not even realise they're performing poorly and it might encourage them to improve.

Of course you'll get asshats abusing it, just the same as they do everything else, but I think the pros outweigh the cons here by far.