Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Altaeciana]

That could certainly be a possible "solution" in the future. Allow people to do content in a way that's reduced versus normal, but with the end rewards being lesser in quality/quantity/significance/non-existent. But it doesn't address the fact that as the JP blogger had mentioned, there is a concern as to the existent fragility of content. Making an easier mode probably wouldn't eliminate the chance someone messing up will ruin any/all progress done. Heck, if that factor was eliminated, then why would you need 8 party members? To pass content despite 50% of the group being dead for a prolonged while is laughable at best.

[Dano]

That could certainly be a possible "solution" in the future. Allow people to do content in a way that's reduced versus normal, but with the end rewards being lesser in quality/quantity/significance/non-existent. But it doesn't address the fact that as the JP blogger had mentioned, there is a concern as to the existent fragility of content. Making an easier mode probably wouldn't eliminate the chance someone messing up will ruin any/all progress done. Heck, if that factor was eliminated, then why would you need 8 party members? To pass content despite 50% of the group being dead for a prolonged while is laughable at best.

these people only care about the story locked behind the content and achievements anyway, i don't think they care about difficulty, they would just clear everything and jump to the next big thing before coming back again for new content.

[Yukiko]

That could certainly be a possible "solution" in the future. Allow people to do content in a way that's reduced versus normal, but with the end rewards being lesser in quality/quantity/significance/non-existent. But it doesn't address the fact that as the JP blogger had mentioned, there is a concern as to the existent fragility of content. Making an easier mode probably wouldn't eliminate the chance someone messing up will ruin any/all progress done. Heck, if that factor was eliminated, then why would you need 8 party members? To pass content despite 50% of the group being dead for a prolonged while is laughable at best.

You remember older FF games?
4 Members, hard Boss hitting with AoE -> 3 Members down
Tank survived using Item to revive healer
Healer using Revive while Tank using Item to groupheal
Healer Revive (if mass revive then doing Wall) while Tank is using Item again groupheal (or reviving the other Damage Dealer depending on which Boss you are fighting)
Healer doing Wall (if wall already casted then hastga or doing now grouphealing) -> tank (mostly the hero or best equipped in group) begins with limit (he survived and is now in enraged mode) while Damage Dealer is casting some Spells or Attacks (or reviving the last member, supporting the group with silencing enemy or such...)

The point is: You can come back even when one (or all 3) messed up, as long as one player is alive there is HOPE... not so in FFXIV
Why is that sort of thing fun? Because when doing that you can not do Damage to the Boss and the game becomes more intense, its becoming deeper with each "turn" (turn does not mean Boss is waiting untill you do something, it just means you are now on the move)... That way Bossfights sometimes needed more than 4 hours to beat and with each attack it was like struggling, but still with HOPE... I miss that, in FFXIV we have: avoid it or wipe it !

Its my opinion, but SE is relying too much on AoE and avoid movement to keep players busy. Maybe because they fear the bad reply about 1 button smash we had in 1.x...

[Altaeciana]

But it makes sense from a logistical standpoint. You entered as a team, so you should be able to finish as a team. If you needed only one person to keep things going and pass content, is that not called "solo play?"

Then the current concern should be to make content soloable.

That is no different than entering a random battle with 4 party members, but three of which are already dead. Your point in referencing the old FF games is moot here.

[Yukiko]

please reread...
Next Hit will kill your hero, you can not clear content solo, i dont get your point, sorry!

[Gormogon]

Maybe because they fear the bad reply about 1 button smash we had in 1.x...

Personally I feel like they believe that depth and mastery equates artificial difficulty. Especially with the outcry of "make it more difficult". The way they explained Brutal version "complexity" already emphasizes that and I'm glad I grew out of desiring challenging content since it was a pointless headache.

I found a lot of fights pre coil to be way more memorable and have way more depth than the fights in Coil even the fights in CT were more memorable and had more depth than T4 and T5.

[Seif]

FINAL FANTASY XI!

(I'm going to start a fire here by alerting all the trolls to the yard just by saying that game's name.)

In XI there were challenges of extreme difficulty.

However there were almost an endless way to overcome great challenges with horizontal progression.

Some would say that patience shouldn't be rewarded the same way twitch reaction skills are rewarded but I think a lot of the content that could be cleared with patience DID REQUIRE SKILL. It took a lot of time and dedication combined with long-term planning but you could gear yourself up to make the difference with full spell set and proper items and food.


XIV in it's current form doesn't offer options this way and I think it's most harmful when it comes to crafted gear and food. They made those completely useless to the point where I wonder why do they even exist?

[skaterger]

Insta kill or 1 shot mechanics are fun when done in moderation. Anyone that did Karazhan will definitely remember Aran's Flame Wreath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=717CoVJ687M), brings back good memories . The difference though is that such mechanics were rare enough for people to take notice when it did happen whereas it is hugely overdone in ffxiv IMO. Take T7 for example, is it really necessary to have 4 insta kill mechanics in just 1 fight? (voice, shriek, petrifaction, renauld)?

I feel that for a lot of fights in coil, it is less about being good, but more of not being bad. You can be the best player in the world, but if one of your teammates stones the raid its a wipe. There's absolutely nothing you can do except watch helplessly as your team falls one after another. Even if the argument for gear invalidation is ignored, individual skill should play a more important part in determining if you can recover from a mistake. Just take T7 as an example, assuming we change cursed voice to reducing the hp of stoned individual to 1 instead of stoning that player, an extremely reactive whm with lightning reflexes can benediction a tank and that's where individual skill comes in to neutralize the mistakes of others.

Such mechanics also exacerbate fragmentation among the community. It leads to zero tolerance policy among players. I have personally witnessed it in all 3 statics that I've been in, as people play the finger pointing blame game. It makes the person who made the mistake feel bad when they are singled out, and if you are the one that made it, you will feel terrible because you caused everyone to waste the last 5-10 minutes of their time.

Thirdly, scripted mechanics are actually related very closely to insta kill mechanics if you think about it more deeply. If game mechanics are designed to kill you in 1 hit, there is absolutely no room for rng.. For example in T6, you absolutely need the boss to cast devour after honey glaze to remove the mark from the player. When all fights become like this, it becomes more of a game of memorization than a game of execution. I will be the first to admit that and totally agree that if you can execute, there is no need to memorize. But the longevity/replayability of a fight is compromised heavily when boss mechanics are set in stone. Just take a look at a guide for T9 as an example:

Fight start 00:00
Ravensclaw 00:06
Ravensclaw 00:17
Stardust 00:19
Ravensbeak 00:28
Red fragment hits 00:31
Ravensbeak hits 00:31
Raven Dive party 00:37
Iron Chariot 00:38
Thermionic Beam 00:43
Raven's Ascent 00:43
Raven Dive 00:45

And this goes all the way till 3 minutes into a fight. Imagine if the same abilities were retained, but they could be cast in a random order, within certain boundaries. It would not only force people to pay attention but also keep things interesting for a long time. It's a little like Diablo 2 where everytime you load a map its randomly generated, so every time you run the map its a different experience.

Now I'm definitely not saying that instant kill mechanics should be removed totally. Difficulty does not have to come from going from 100%-->0%. I hate to use Wow again as an example, but fights like Yogg Saron in Ulduar and Hex Lord in Zul' Aman were difficult and fun without being "All or nothing". Mix things around, have pvp fights, tank and spank fights, aoe fights, debuff fights and even 1 shot fights. Even if fights become harder due to more randomization, so what? I for one would embrace it.

[Rosy]

You remember older FF games?
4 Members, hard Boss hitting with AoE -> 3 Members down
Tank survived using Item to revive healer
Healer using Revive while Tank using Item to groupheal
Healer Revive (if mass revive then doing Wall) while Tank is using Item again groupheal (or reviving the other Damage Dealer depending on which Boss you are fighting)
Healer doing Wall (if wall already casted then hastga or doing now grouphealing) -> tank (mostly the hero or best equipped in group) begins with limit (he survived and is now in enraged mode) while Damage Dealer is casting some Spells or Attacks (or reviving the last member, supporting the group with silencing enemy or such...)

(recluctantly snipped because of yet another modern day restriction)...

Thank you so much for hitting the nail on the head...I've been racking my brains as to what is different from endgame in FFXIV to all the other mmos I've played.

It's the fact that there is NO RECOVERY OPTIONS AT ALL.

In older games raiding was fun...hard work...stressful, but rewarding when you eventually, through many of the skills you talked about, beat the boss. I actually remember sitting there with the sweat dripping down my face, my fingers hurting, my eyes tired, just from the sheer effort of using everything we had to recover.

BECAUSE WE WERE ABLE TO RECOVER....using skill, forward thinking, potions, food etc.etc.

I also remember the corpse runs in EQ....going to bed when the birds were up and singing because it had taken me two hours to drag all the corpses to the entrance for guildies to recover theirs the next day PLANE OF FEAR!! It was teamwork at its very best, where you could actually play with guildies (instead of this stupid "static" idea), where players who weren't good at dodging...not that there was much dodging back then, still had skills to assist their team.

Where we had to actually beat other guilds to even get a boss! and hope we didn't see them rushing past us as we were clearing...but of course that was in the days before "instances" and the sterile atmosphere that brings with it.

[Litre]

[B]... you could gear yourself up to make the difference with full spell set and proper items and food.


XIV in it's current form doesn't offer options this way and I think it's most harmful when it comes to crafted gear and food. They made those completely useless to the point where I wonder why do they even exist?

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head, the fights need to be more balanced between dodging mechanics and gear.

Insta-death mechanics were also more balanced in other games, they were designed to pretty much kill you if you were fighting at the intended level.


But! There was a caveat, because they didn't just kill you outright, it was possible to grind in the forest a bit, gain an extra 5 levels, perhaps buy an item that would allow you to resist some of the damage and re-attempt it. Was it easier? Sure, but you also worked harder and it took you longer to beat. In that sense I think it's balanced, now in an MMO, obviously the hardcore need a headstart, so the items and gear that would allow you to beat the fight more easily obviously shouldn't be released until months after.

And that's totally fine, the casual players are happy with the "horizontal progression", it at least gives them a round-about way to do it. Plus they don't have that much time to play, but at least if they know they are getting closer, they'll be interested.

So we have Animus and now Novus, now if an iLvl 100 item really made all the difference so players can beat Titan (many months after its release) then great, but unless that novus weapon comes with +25% earth elemental knockback resist, I don't think so - and making it totally RNG also made it less interesting for casual players.