Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Kuwagami]

For the current Coil, I think they should do it this way

Second Coil (story version)

Turn 1) Remove Blighted Bouquet, remove adds
Turn 2) Remove petrification buff, makes renaults killable and their auto attack hit for ~1000
Turn 3) turn off towers
Turn 4) Remove everything except Heaven's Fall

It basically has to be children mode Coil so people can get the side quest completion or something. Obviously, it doesn't drop any loot.

From a logical point only, I wouldn't remove "everything" in T9 (it's supposed to be the last boss, by removing everything you'd make it simpler than T8), but I don't know how to create a "baby mode" out of it so I'd go with that as well for the moment.

There is no need for loot if you want to see the story anyway.

[Melithea]

SE has two ways to go about things:

1) Make end-game content stand-alone and not in any way related to lore or progression (like they are going to do with the Brutal modes)

So wait, let me get this straight.

You have no problem with the current difficulty level of Coil. Your problem is that this content gives highly skilled players first dibs on high level gear and a 2-minute cutscene. Your #1 solution to fixing the perceived problem with Coil is to take away meaningful rewards from the players who are good enough to clear it while it is still challenging.

This is quite possibly the most selfish, hateful, jealous thing I have ever seen posted on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

Please, please tell me I'm wrong and correct the way you have presented yourself. If this is really the attitude of everyone complaining, god help us.

[Anyssa]

You see..what we're left with at the moment is running the same dungeons over and over for absolutely nothing except myth. Fates..oh please not fates, they were totally ruined by the forced Atma fiasco, and..crafting. We can't farm for High Allagan gear, we can't farm for Levi weapons, (we can't even see the freaking content beyond Titan) we can't do the weekly Rowena token runs, so...we who pay the majority of subs...have absolutely nothing "fun", or productive to do UNLESS WE JOIN A STATIC.

Well said! Due to not being able to get past titan ex, I've been locked out of all this content. As a result it's built up frustration, anger, and lastly lost love for the game. The disappointing part in all this is that SE could solve it all if they simply eased up on some of the team rope jumping. Even easing up on the plumes would satisfy me. Those damn plumes and the insane latency issues that constantly kill people is a real issue that SE won't even recognize.

[Atreides]

For the current Coil, I think they should do it this way

Second Coil (story version)

Turn 3) turn off towers

Or maybe just make it so that there is always just one tower active and remove the stack mechanics.

[Iriadysa]

We can't "farm" for High Allagan gear, we can't farm for Levi weapons, (we can't even see the freaking content beyond Titan) we can't do the weekly Rowena token runs, so us "non-exceptional" people, you know, we who pay the majority of subs and therefore keep this game healthy....have absolutely nothing "fun", or productive to do UNLESS WE JOIN A STATIC.

I have done all Ex primals multiple times (more than you have attempted them, I bet) and all of Coil 1 including T5 without a static. Even if I'm super human and have cat-like reflexes, I still had to find other people to PUG with to beat this content multiple times, so I see no reason why you or anyone else can't do it.

The only thing that you will need a static for is Coil 2 (T6+), and the reason is not difficulty. The reason is the lock out system.

[Kiara]

You see...what we're left with at the moment is running the same dungeons over and over for absolutely nothing except myth... so us "non-exceptional" people, you know, we who pay the majority of subs and therefore keep this game healthy....have absolutely nothing "fun", or productive to do UNLESS WE JOIN A STATIC.

... there shouldn't be this reliance on getting a "static", we should be able to do stuff that is a challenge, enjoyable and fun with our guildies as in ALL OTHER MMOS so far.

Well said Rosy. Here's a conversation I had with a friend of mine (playing on another server) that's quitting, and why:

They're on a hardcore server where everyone expects you to immediately read up / watch YouTube videos for the latest patch contents to prep or you get kicked.

"I just got tired of having to 'research' every new fight before I could experience them. When you think about it, it's totally backwards: Since you essentially have to memorize each fight on Youtube before you try them, everything is spoiled. There's nothing new or different to discover. You've seen every move and attack a dozen times on video before you've even begun. My first fight with Leviathan was totally boring rather than exciting. It's all rote memorization and twitch reactions (and hoping lag doesn't kill you regardless). That's fun???"

And when you can do it flawlessly, unless you have a static, you have to find 7 other people to do the same perfect "dance" / routine with you, or else you lose, even if you didn't make any mistakes.

That's one of the biggest flaws. It's fine to have challenging content, but the way they've designed the fights to be, one newbie messing up on DiveBombs can cause Twintania to knock the Tanks and/or Healers into the Flame Walls, one-shotting them along with the newbie.

Other MMOs have fights and raids where a mistake and wiping ended up with an *understanding* attitude and sometimes some good laughs and you retry. In XIV, the way these end game fights have become it's like what the OP says: It's toxic and everyone gets mad or frustrated and quickly Vote Disbands / Rage Quits. There's no feeling of exploring the fights and being challenged by them either, after you memorize it (I've memorized all the EX Primal fights and have cleared them repeatedly). It really is just memorization, and hoping you have 7 other players that memorized the routine with you.

It should be more interesting and engaging than this for Hardcore and Mainstream, while also having more room for error / recovery for Mainstream players (so if they screw up Landslide, DiveBomb, Twister, Acid Cloud, etc., etc.) it's not instant death or an irrecoverable wipe. Some posters brought up good ideas in this thread, like perhaps Landslide will knock you "off" but you can still climb back up (however they sell that), or the rage timer is more lenient to allow mainstream players to recover from a few deaths and still eventually beat the boss if they get that far.

I sincerely hope the Dev Team considers these things going forward.

[Litre]

Well 66 pages and still no response, I've been quite vocal in this thread and I'm glad to see so many understand where the OP is coming from.

Even though I have no problems with "team-rope" jumping, clearing T5 before echo, etc... It's just so disheartening to see my friends leave one by one and I'm unable to help them since you literally need 6-7 perfect players to carry them through. And what waits for them is just more difficult content.

For now I'm letting my sub run out, the new content is great and all but you're really only doing it for yourself/static. There is no sense of community with all the undeserved toxic comments being thrown out for players who just want to enjoy the game and lack of players willing to or able to help.

[OSUBuckeye4]

So wait, let me get this straight.

You have no problem with the current difficulty level of Coil. Your problem is that this content gives highly skilled players first dibs on high level gear and a 2-minute cutscene. Your #1 solution to fixing the perceived problem with Coil is to take away meaningful rewards from the players who are good enough to clear it while it is still challenging.

This is quite possibly the most selfish, hateful, jealous thing I have ever seen posted on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

Please, please tell me I'm wrong and correct the way you have presented yourself. If this is really the attitude of everyone complaining, god help us.

No, you got it completely crooked... and wow, hyperbole much?

Did you even read my entire post, or did you just copy one sentence and start hyperventilating?


I'm saying that the problem with the way SE is releasing new end-game content, is that they are hiding it behind other content that a large portion of the playerbase can't complete.

They release Moogle EX, but you have to defeat the other EX's to even play it. Ditto with Leviathan.

Nothing frustrates people more than having a developer say, "we released this awesome cutting edge new battle" and then when the player goes looking for it, it's behind another battle that they have died on a million (hyperbole) times because they either have a bad connection, or they can't find 7 other people who can perform the script without dying.


They put lore/storyline content at the end of Coil1 and 2, but you can't even get to Coil 2 without defeating the first Coil, which many players who are not in statics can't.

This reasponse of, "yea, well, I play 8 hours a day and I've been able to beat it with PF so everyone else should have to do that as well" is absurd. It's a video game. Many of us have families and jobs and can only play a few hours a week. This notion of, "if you can't put in 20-40 hours a week, you don't deserve to see the content" is ridiculous.

We're not asking for the top end gear, we're just asking for the chance to experience the content and see these "cutting edge" mechanics in action. Many of us can't even do that.

It frustrates people. I've watched FC members leave because of this. I think it's legitimate frustration as well. It's not, "I can't get my super overpowered sword so I'm going to quit over it", it's, "they put this awesome stuff out there, and I can't see it... obviously they don't care about me, so I'm leaving".

While that's not my mindset, I can understand someone who takes that approach.




I'm saying that they should EITHER

1) Release true end-game, ""only the best of the best will beat this", type content in the same fashion that they are releasing the Brutal mode content. Stand alone content that anyone can attempt... when/if you beat it, you get your reward. There's no further quests or storyline behind it.

2) Release more EX battles and require people to beat the pre-existing EX battles... but, put a "progression" or "story advancement" mode version in (minus the rewards given) that allow people to at least experience the awesome new battles and don't leave them feeling left out.


It doesn't mean that they need to pick one and use that method for everything. I'm saying that they should pick one of the two when deciding to drop a new battle or new content.

If it's going to be gated behind something else, then open the prior gate to the majority of the playerbase. Take away the reward if players use that new window that opens the content up, that's fine.

If you don't want it to be gated, then make it accessible to everyone.



Echo mode doesn't work when battles are full of insta-kill mechanics that people with bad connections can't get past.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

I'm not sure I understand why people are against being in or finding a static. I basically always had one in FFXI just because it was easier to organize. Granted, PT sizes were much larger then (Alliance), but over all it was expected that you be available this day, this time, for this gear. And I would not consider what we were back then "hardcore". Instead of always having to ask around and hope people were on for specific things, you knew what you had to do and when. Time in between was yours to do whatever you wanted. Hell if you couldn't make it one week, it wasn't a big deal, they fill in the spot for the day and move on.

With FFXIV, my experience with statics has only made it more positive, imo. I've grown really close to the core 7 I run events with, but I'm still able to do other things and chat with other members not in the static or in another one. Does it exclude members in some way? Yes, I can agree with that. However, what I've noticed, is as one static gets further with BC, so do the others. Everyone is getting the experience, and afterward, we are able to join up on non-static days to try stuff between statics. Now, lockout does mess this up a bit, but we have a policy that after scheduled practice days, the rest of the week is free reign to try your hand at it with other statics, members or pickups. Sometimes we learn new things from this just by trying with different people.

Maybe I run it strangely, but really the forcing of statics has not been a bad experience for me at all. I can understand the impatience and the difficulty for people who like playing solo, but to seemingly treat the idea of a static as something you don't want just confuses me.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not knocking the rest of your post, you make sense. I seriously haven't touched MMO's since FFXI and this is very similar to my experience there so I'm not sure if I'm just not understanding something.

[Melithea]

Did you even read my entire post, or did you just copy one sentence and start hyperventilating?

I read the whole post, I just don't quote the whole thing. Only the relevant/responsive/key part.

They release Moogle EX, but you have to defeat the other EX's to even play it. Ditto with Leviathan.

This is already going to be fixed in 3 weeks. That's why I've ignored it and stuck with addressing Coil. You should as well.

I'm saying that they should EITHER

1) Release true end-game, ""only the best of the best will beat this", type content in the same fashion that they are releasing the Brutal mode content. Stand alone content that anyone can attempt... when/if you beat it, you get your reward. There's no further quests behind it.

This is... slightly better. So you wouldn't care about beating T5 if you could enter Second Coil without clearing it, is what you're telling me. I don't see why you would even want to try harder content if you can't beat the easier content in front of it (don't bring up Titan, that's been addressed). Somehow I don't believe this is an actual solution or one that would make the majority of people happy.