Protesting Frontlines

[Rawk]

I think the point is that if they're removing morale to remove the advantage, why not remove every possible advantage there is, including AP (Regardless of how much the advantage gives).

Going back to my original statement, I might as well queue naked. It's silly.

[Pibz]

I think the point is that if they're removing morale to remove the advantage, why not remove every possible advantage there is, including AP (Regardless of how much the advantage gives).

Going back to my original statement, I might as well queue naked. It's silly.

Yes gear stats capped to i80 and going into PvP naked is totally the same, dat logic and fair point.

And now the defenders of having morale are going into how having almost 300 morale more(while still having abilities upgraded and trait stats) vs pve gear is even remotely close to solely having trait stats maxed(+25 at most) and abilities upgraded, please , either you are truly oblivious or you're just trying to use false arguments to push a point, either way it's embarrassing.
Because YES, there is such a thing as a middle ground...

[Nalien]

And now the defenders of having morale are going into how having almost 300 morale more(while still having abilities upgraded and trait stats) vs pve gear is even remotely close to solely having trait stats maxed(+25 at most) and abilities upgraded, please , either you are truly oblivious or you're just trying to use false arguments to push a point, either way it's embarrassing.
Because YES, there is such a thing as a middle ground...

Actually, if you ever read anything I said, I'm suggesting giving a Morale boost to people with none, meaning if i90/100 capped to i80 have 300 Morale, i70 has 250 Morale, and PvE has 200 Morale by default. As well as adjustments to Morale in general (at the extreme, making it exactly the same as the AP stats boost, while removing the AP stats boost; effectively no different from the current "No Morale, Keep AP"), both in its effect and speed the gear is acquired.

I'm here to tell you the model they chose works O.o.

Is that why people are upset with their gear being rendered moot? Is that why people are pointing out how Yoshida is going back on his word?

Yes, it "works", I'm not really arguing it doesn't. I'm arguing that there was a better way to make it work; a middle ground. They could have handled things much better, even if the way they've gone with does work. Gutting Morale was not the only, or in my opinion, the best, way to do things. Likely it was the fastest though, if they re-implement it at a later date when most people have the Marks for the gear/etc, and everybody is fine with that, I'm just going to roll my eyes at everyone disagreeing (to the point of throw insults) with my current point.

[Pibz]

Actually, if you ever read anything I said, I'm suggesting giving a Morale boost to people with none, meaning if i90/100 capped to i80 have 300 Morale, i70 has 250 Morale, and PvE has 200 Morale by default. As well as adjustments to Morale in general (at the extreme, making it exactly the same as the AP stats boost, while removing the AP stats boost; effectively no different from the current "No Morale, Keep AP"), both in its effect and speed the gear is acquired.

I wasn't referring to you, unless you also think it's fair to say that because they're removing morale frontlines going in naked is the same as going in with gear.

But I'll hand it to you, that is the one idea i agree with, they could just keep morale in frontlines and find a more finely tuned balance between pve gear and pvp gear ,so that PvP is still slightly better,but that coming into PvP with pve gear doesn't make you a complete gimp.

I never argued against that, only thing i have been arguing against is the idea that it won't be better/more balanced with no morale in frontlines vs the current system we have, and as i have said before this is likely to be a temporary measure to get a bigger chunk of the population geared up.

[Nalien]

I wasn't referring to you, unless you also think it's fair to say that because they're removing morale frontlines going in naked is the same as going in with gear.

My mistake, I mistook "the defenders of having morale" to imply anyone defending Morale, myself included.

The thing with Morale being taken out as a temporary measure, is that it doesn't work in the long run (without changes similar to what I've suggested). If they just go "OK, everyone has enough Wolf Marks for i90, we can put Morale back in and there wouldn't be a difference", then anyone who comes in new at that point is screwed in the same way we're against currently.

[Rawk]

Yes gear stats capped to i80 and going into PvP naked is totally the same, dat logic and fair point.

It's an extreme statement to show the point that I want to use my pvp gear in Frontlines. Obviously I don't realistically think that being naked is the same as level synced pve gear.

Also I main PvP with DRG, main PvE WHM. Since obtaining pvp gear i have thrown away all pve gear that my DRG had minus it's original AF set. So in reality I don't even have PvE for DRG. Not that i can't spend time in Levi or run the ex modes again to grab a wep, and grind for dungeon gear. It's still a kick in the face. Even if I'm for morale, I'll accept a compromise that allows pvp gear an advantage and useable in frontlines. Technically you can use it, but if it offers a disadvantage then it's a problem. That's why removing morale sucks, because right now there's no mentioning of tweaking pvp gear to make them viable.