NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[MartaDemireux]

The same way I'll explain how Shield Lob and Shield Swipe damage are based or Sword Damage, and punch are based or Bow damage, or how they're affected by slashing or piercing resistance...simplicity

Or rather...I just tried something with my Bard. I engaged a mob at the closest range I can, and guess what ? I attacked with my bow, not with my fist !
So...you tried to deny my point by false statement ?

Well the animation must have changed because it most certainly was a punch in 1.0 and ARR release.

All the same, DEX does not increase ranged damage. It increases the attack power for bows.

[Reynhart]

Too bad nothing in this game treats attacks and ranged attacks separatly, we could have found interesting results about what is really considered a "ranged" attack.
It was a punch in 1.0 because Bard needed arrows for attacking, and they didn't want auto-attack to burn your ammunitions too quickly.

I suppose when the Musketeer-or-what's-its-name will come, we'll have another weapon weapon based on DEX.
But still, the only weapon tied to DEX is a bow, whereas all close range weapons depend on STR. And, looking at the trailer, you can't deny that Rogue has a really "close" ranged weapon.

[MartaDemireux]

Too bad nothing in this game treats attacks and ranged attacks separatly, we could have found interesting results about what is really considered a "ranged" attack.
It was a punch in 1.0 because Bard needed arrows for attacking, and they didn't want auto-attack to burn your ammunitions too quickly.

I suppose when the Musketeer-or-what's-its-name will come, we'll have another weapon weapon based on DEX.
But still, the only weapon tied to DEX is a bow, whereas all close range weapons depend on STR. And, looking at the trailer, you can't deny that Rogue has a really "close" ranged weapon.

There sort of is with the whole GLA/LNC/MRD attacks, though. They involve throwing a weapon from up to a distance of 15y (iirc). Their descriptions even call them a ranged attack. It's pretty much cut and dry that DEX just affects block/parry rates and the AP of Bows. STR affects the block/parry amount and the AP of every other weapon in the game.

It does, no doubt, have a close range. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying for the archetypal trope of a rogue or ninja class/job its the norm for it to be based on DEX. And technically, since the game really doesn't see DEX as influencing ranged attacks and just influencing attacks coming from a bow (you said yourself that Feint had comparable damage on BRD as on DRG) we could simply change the wording from "affects ranged attacks" to "increases attack power for bows." With that we could include Guns, Rapiers, and Twinblades to adhere to the norms set up by years of gaming.

Not gonna lie, I never played XI. I was kinda taking his word for it, even though I saw stuff about STR being useful for THF in XI. . .

And sorry, I didn't respond to this. In XI THF's only use for STR was to equip during your auto-attack TP building phase. Weaponskills (at least the only ones worth using) were based primarily and sometimes solely on DEX. You would have one gear set for TPing in and one gear set for WSing in. STR was only used in 2 dagger WS's and yet you'd still want to stack your WS with Sneak Attack or Trick Attack and stack on DEX or AGI respectively. WS's were the primary source of damage for physical DPS.

Did not read the full thread, but it seems people are now discussing about main charact of the ROG/NIN. Sorry if it has been said before...

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Look the "skill" tab. You can see some written in japanese. They are (99.9% probability) related to the ROG. There is also 3 "Dex+". So that would mean the main charact for ROG is dext.

Roughly translated for people (they are traits):

ＤＥＸアップ (Lv8) - DEX up.
-> ＤＥＸを2上昇する - Increases DEX by 2.

落下ダメージ軽減 (Lv14) - Fall damage reduction.
-> 落下による被ダメージを軽減する - Reduces the damage caused by falling.

ＤＥＸアップII (Lv16) - DEX up II.
-> ＤＥＸを4上昇する - Increases DEX by 4.

ステルス効果アップ (LV20) - Stealth effect up.
-> ステルス中の移動速度低下を軽減する - Reduces the movement speed reduction when in stealth.

ＤＥＸアップIII (Lv24) - DEX up III.
-> ＤＥＸを6上昇する - Increases DEX by 6.

移動速度アップ (Lv28) - Movement speed up.
-> 自身の移動速度を上昇させる - Increases personal movement speed.

単体特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv32)- Single specialized poison buff effect up.
-> 単体特化毒Buff（猛毒）の与ダメージ上昇効果を20％に上昇する - Single specialized poison buff (Highly Toxic) increases physical damage by 20%.

TPリジェネ付与効果アップ (Lv36)- TP Regen effect up.
-> TPリジェネ付与によるＴＰ回復効果の効果量を上昇する。 - Grants increased effective recovery amount of TP regen.

複数特化毒Buff効果アップ (Lv40) - Multiple specialized (?) poison Buff effect up.
-> 複数特化毒Buffの与物理ダメージ上昇効果を10％に上昇する - Multiple specialized poison buff increases physical damage by 10%.

コンボB-1効果アップ (Lv44) - Combo B-1 effect up
-> コンボB-1の継続ダメージの威力を45に上昇する - Combo B-1 DoT increased to 45.

ナイフ投げPBAE効果アップ (Lv48) - Knife throwing PBAE (Player-based Area of Effect?) effect up.
-> ナイフ投げPBAEの威力を80に上昇する - Knife Throw PBAE power rises to 80.

VERY interesting on the 3 DEX+ traits. They may not be for Ninja at all as they have included Stone in the list as well but it is entirely possible as they fall at levels the Rogue would be missing traits for. Yoshi most certainly did say to hold onto melee DPS gear though which is confusing. Perhaps Rogue will use DEX afterall and Ninja will use STR.

What I'm seeing here is that Rogue (perhaps Ninja too) will have at least 2 combo chains, A and B. With the clarification of B-1 I'm assuming there is also at least a B-2 as well. This means there could be a potential branching point for Ninja and a secondary job or perhaps just for skills in general.

[EdgeFayth]

Did not read the full thread, but it seems people are now discussing about main charact of the ROG/NIN. Sorry if it has been said before...

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Look the "skill" tab. You can see some written in japanese. They are (99.9% probability) related to the ROG. There is also 3 "Dex+". So that would mean the main charact for ROG is dext.

[Tarushade]

Did not read the full thread, but it seems people are now discussing about main charact of the ROG/NIN. Sorry if it has been said before...

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

Look the "skill" tab. You can see some written in japanese. They are (99.9% probability) related to the ROG. There is also 3 "Dex+". So that would mean the main charact for ROG is dext.

But they said we will use "melee" gear for Rogue, which is STR based.

[Dano]

snip.

woah good find, the skills are

reduce fall damage
stealth effect up
movement speed up
TP regen up
single target poison buff?
multiple target poison buff?
knife throwing up
combo up
and the three levels of passive DEX increases, im pretty sure this class will be using dex for damage. They share the same icon as Archer's which uses dex for damage.

[Radacci]

1 week later, and ppl are still blabbering on about THF and DEX? come on...
Rogue=THF-Steal...what usefulness would steal have in XIV? steal fleece from Karakuls? manage hate? if the tank does what they should, hate is not going to be an issue, and most jobs got access to aggro manage skills.
This is as ridiculous as the argument that the ARR poster with SCH on it...wasn't actually scholar....because weird reasons.
They are introducing a new class/job, and they ARE NOT going to change how stats work, for ONE class. In this game, MELEE classes get attack FROM STR....get over it...
This is FF XIV, not other games, so stop using other games as arguments for how Rogue/Ninja will work in THIS game.
Stop being picky about the details, because of sentimentality, cause a day after rogue is released, no one will care anyway.

about those dex boosts....gun class...
Oh look there's stone skill there, beside lv X petrify, Desolation and grim fate, that must mean Dzemael boss uses Level X Petrify and casts stone, right? not.
just cause something appears in patch files, doesn't mean it's in the game, or will be, soon.
Model for cerberus, appeared in patch files, pre 2.2 (i think)....still not here.
just cause rogue skills appear next to dex passives, doesn't mean that rogue will use dex....it wont...unless it's ranged class...which it isn't.
Or ninja is dex-parry-tank, trololol.
Seriously....get over it...

[Hik0]

Ok, people really need to stop using "always" when they say ONLY IN FFXI. Which is technically wrong too since STR and its effect on Attack had a far greater impact on calculating damage than DEX.
And in FFXI, AGI (Which our DEX is far closer to) was useful only for Trick attack, and ONE WS for Dagger or Katana.
And in EVERY offline game, Strength improved attack power, thus physical damage. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Strength

lol at the AGI comment since in XI

(don't care about the defensive effect of the stats)
- there is STR AGI and DEX,
- STR: physical dmg (melee and range)
- DEX: melee accuracy, physical crit rate (melee and range)
- AGI: ranged accuracy
- daggers: only relic and DNC mythic WSes get STR mods
- katana: while STR is a mod for most WSes it's never the only one and tie with INT or DEX, merit and relic are dex only, empy is agi

stop with the "in X other game in work like that"
in lot of other games ranged dmg are also physical and affected by STR, not in this one.
If SE says that daggers are "dual wiled dmg" type and that it's affected by dex so be it.

[Reynhart]

lol at the AGI comment since in XI

You purposely removed AGI effect on defensive skills... You, know, like DEX here affect Block and Parry rate.

[LoLo]

I all I want to say is that you can tell who comes into the thread and hasn't read any of it before posting their usual "What will steal bring to the game, its useless" or " Thief is unheroic, useless, and will clutter the game" comments

What I'm seeing here is that Rogue (perhaps Ninja too) will have at least 2 combo chains, A and B. With the clarification of B-1 I'm assuming there is also at least a B-2 as well. This means there could be a potential branching point for Ninja and a secondary job or perhaps just for skills in general.

Maybe this is the case. I guess time will tell.

lol at the AGI comment since in XI

If he did play FFXI he must have only played Thief for a subjob or just never main the job and was one of the many terrible Thief's that gave the Thief job a bad name.