2.3 Frontline What do we know?

[Pibz]

Again, make the grind to r25 less ridiculous and this problem goes away.

Can't you see this is exactly what they are doing?

Also, does anyone else remember when the new PvP armor hit and Yoshida said it was in preparation for current PvPers to get ready for Frontlines? Yeah... Thanks for that Yoshida...

Well that's just not true, you've even quoted what they actually said a few pages back.
Paraphrasing what they said it was something like "frontlines will be something everyone can get into and prepare to move into the more harsh pvp in wolve's den".

The only thing they need to do is add ladder progression to Wolve's den for those that have gear and want to go all out.

[Pibz]

just make it so our pvp gear is better than pve gear because wouldn't that make sense?

Does awesome raid gear make it easier for you to go through low level dungeons? No. So think of this in the same way, an accessible way to "level" in PvP.

[Nalien]

Can't you see this is exactly what they are doing?

How? Frontlines will have the same rewards as Wolves Den, plus Tomestones. Wolves Den is still arguably better for leveling up, since it doesn't take 30 minutes a turn.

Well that's just not true, you've even quoted what they actually said a few pages back.
Paraphrasing what they said it was something like "frontlines will be something everyone can get into and prepare to move into the more harsh pvp in wolve's den".

The only thing they need to do is add ladder progression to Wolve's den for those that have gear and want to go all out.

That's an entirely different quote you're talking about. When he added the r40 armors, he said it was so current PvPers could prepare for Frontlines.

[Ragecake]

So why do I want to wait another 6 months or a year for my gear to matter? It's kind of like saying "Oh yeah the new coil 3, you can't use any of your new gear and will be synced to ilvl80. We may update this in the future, but first we want new players to experience the new coil 3 at the same time as the dedicated players. In the future, instead of echo we will just lift the ilvl restriction, so you can go back and play old content with your gear that you earned. You will gain sold tomes, but there will be no new gear drops in coil 3"

They wouldn't do this because (repeating myself once again) it's a pve oriented game.

Maybe you should get your priorities checked out in this game or move on to another game to fulfill your passion.

Yeah it sucks that you'd have to wait a bit longer before your gear matters in more aspects than glamours and Wolf's Den, but that's just the way it is for now.

Maybe that's why it's a huge grind to get to R40 and full sets of ilvl 100 PvP gear. Maybe that's why it's supposed to take months to reach that. Who knows.

[Niroken]

For the same reason that PvE needs progression: to keep people interested in content. No one farms Brayflox or Primals just for fun; they farm them for tomestones or gear drops to progress their character. PvP is the exact same.

When it comes to PvP the monsters get higher stats. In PvP everyone stays the same, because there is progression people are forced to grind to be able to compete with players who are better geared so that you are not at a disadvantage. PvE is rather scripted so once you know the patterns it becomes rather easy, PvP however is not as you are fighting against something with intelligence.

The progression of PvE is there to stretch the content farther because of the unintelligent nature of programmed encounters. FF14 is basically forcing PvE progression in a PvP atmosphere when, if done properly, PvP could stand alone fine. PvP can always add new arena styles and more game modes for variety (because the Wolves Den arena honestly looks boring and I expect more so after you play in it hundreds of times).

[Ragecake]

It's like adding endgame activities and then telling us that our gear will only matter for Levequests...

That's a terrible analogy and you should feel bad for it. My point is that PvP gear matters period.

snip

lol I don't think this is the game for you. The only thing I feel bad for is the time investment you've made to all be a waste.

We're specifically talking about Frontlines here.

Well it's already clear that pvp gear is not going to be a factor in Frontlines. Is this discussion over now?

[Nalien]

My point is that PvP gear matters period.

Except it doesn't.

It matters for Wolves Den, where you'll be sitting in a queue for eternity after 2.3 because everyone would rather do Frontlines for fun.

And no, before you bother, mystical future content that may or may not happen doesn't count as a reason for PvP gear mattering.

[Rawk]

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/06/12...-realm-reborn/
"There’s an item level sync that will be at something like ilvl 80 or 90, so if you have something higher, it won’t matter. However, PvP gear is where you’ll have the advantage."

http://www.rpgsite.net/interview/313...-naoki-yoshida
"If you want to focus on PVE, that's absolutely fine, but if you do get a chance to try out PVP, please do so" "what kind of gear you want to use - make sure you have good enough gear to stand up in PVP."

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/fina...living-economy
"In a game like this, we don't expect every player to play PVP. We actually think it's going to be around 15 to 20 percent of the userbase. These players, when they really get into PVP, are going to need different types of items and armor than they will need in PVE."

[Shake0615]

When it comes to PvP the monsters get higher stats. In PvP everyone stays the same, because there is progression people are forced to grind to be able to compete with players who are better geared so that you are not at a disadvantage. PvE is rather scripted so once you know the patterns it becomes rather easy, PvP however is not as you are fighting against something with intelligence.

You make an excellent point and I won't deny that if poorly implemented (as is the case in this game) PvP progression can lead to a major gear gap. It's something has to be carefully balanced. But there are ways around this just as there are in PvE. For example, in Patch 2.2 (I believe) Darklight became accessible through random drops rather than by farming tomestones. That way people could do their dailies, get their gear drops AND farm tomestones for vendor purchasing. They didn't remove stats from the Allagan gear and level sync the new Coil encounters to deal with the gear disparity between new and veteran players. They brought the new people UP to speed rather than bringing the veterans DOWN to speed. Why is it that in PvP it's acceptable to bring the veterans down to the level of beginners when they could instead give the beginners better stepping stones to reach the high levels?

[Rawk]

Well it's already clear that pvp gear is not going to be a factor in Frontlines. Is this discussion over now?

It's not clear, nobody here is 100% sure. The level sync is for sure, but it's possible the morale will still play in or that they'll alter pvp gear sets. We're speaking out to let it be known that we do NOT want our pvp gear to be useless, as it seems that way based on the live translation. If you didn't want to discuss frontlines please don't post in a frontlines thread.