"Friendlies"

[a20ftGreatWhite]

Your handing out wins to people that didn't win because they want points. Doesn't matter if you have the intent or not. Hey! I didn't ruin that kids cake, that cat piss I added really helped in bringing out some new flavors! If you have to go on this message board and write post after post trying to convince people your not win trading, then your win trading dude

[Kantei]

Ahh it seems you don't understand what this discussions is about. Why do I bring up intent?

I keep typing post after post, because every post against me doesn't know how to use definitions nor argue for or against consumer rights.

This is a consumer rights issue. I am a consumer in this case. When it comes to consumer rights, business owners are only allowed to judge you on two fronts if they think you are trying to cheat a system: knowledge, and intent.

Intent, and knowledge are the only thing that matter in this subject, because they are the only thing SE can judge us with.

Thanks for your opinion Great White, know that if anyone posts without knowledge on the subject we are having a discussion about, I'm going to fill you in on it. Go read about Owner/consumer rights and come up with a better analogy.

Win trading requires intent to boost. Unless you can prove other wise, with cited information, give up on trying to call me a cheater.

[Amada]

Ok so Kantei when I talked to you ingame about this you said that you handed out wins at the end to the teams that lost. Well you are all about telling us we change things to fit our view. If you look at it the people that win trade with the set up you say is win trade. They are only setting up groups to hand out wins to their mains by killing their alts. So handing out wins and win trade to me are the same thing. But cause robin hood stole money from rich and gave to the poor that is still stealing right? Just cause you play a few games then "hand out" wins to the loosing team seems like the same thing to me? It's been said by everyone to swap group members around on the teams. Your reply is you have to wait like 5 - 10 min for queues. And then try to say that it's SE's fault that you have to hand out wins cause you don't wanna wait 5 - 10 min for queues to pop. Suck it up some of us don't wanna wait 1 hour for queues but we still do win or loss. You say to use definitions to prove to you that you win trade you also say that you want the community to tell you if it's right or wrong. Well the definitions you post is just what some guy typed up I can just as easy go in and add handing out wins to it. Definitions of stuff for video games are always changing. But I have seen lots of people from the community say it win trade and Ive only seen you try to defend it. So I think the community says it's just about win trade.

[Amada]

Win trading requires intent to boost.

You "hand out" wins at the end with the intent to boost players gear/rank so they wan to come back and pvp

[WahPaw]

cause you don't wanna wait 5 - 10 min for queues to pop.

lol try 45 mins.

Kantei, if your having fun shake them haters off.... Fuck what they think. It's a game, do your thing. You don't hafta defend shit to these clowns.

[Kantei]

If you can easily find cited information that counter acts mine, pull it up O.o I have 15 other sources to pull from that all say the same thing. Do things instead of talking about doing things.

Nice Robinhood analogy, it contradicts everything you said, later, I can post what your analogy actually stands for instead of how you view me and Robin hood. Can also provide a guide for how to use analogies properly lol(You know I'm winded, keeping this short).

All and all, more expanding a definition to suit your needs, and now a fictional character to suit your needs.

[Kantei]

At this point consider the balance issue over. I found the fix when the shell and I play tested different rules after your attempted shaming of me. The new rule set reflects "Gearing" rules to replace balance matches (It's actually more) . It has the same intended effect.

Now that we have that out of the way.

Celty, If you don't get what this is about, it's that you did something like try and shame my link shell in the link shell directory.

I posted the idea of it for peer review a month ago, didn't hear much in the way of it being a bad thing. It was fun, we ran with it, this topic fell off the first page

Using the urban dictionary(Win trading doesn't exist in a real dictionary buddy, it's slang) and a blog(to illustrate the finer points) isn't a weak attempt to mask or cloud what we do, it's not me hiding behind a definition. It was stating the definition so we all had a better picture of what it is.

I had many more sources of what exactly win trading is, i stopped at 2 knowing it was already be a wall of text. I am still waiting for one proper information source that practice matches are considered win trading.

Regardless, one or two rational posters in here were respectful and said we are treading murky water.

When I asked my link shell for their opinions on the subject, it went heavily in the favor of keep friendlies how they are(they work), a lot saying they don't care if we change the rules, 2 saying they don't want to do anything that will get them banned.

1 member avoiding my event out of fear is enough incentive to get more creative with the rules. That's what I do.

Celty, you spoke of in game, our brief interaction so far deals with you joining my shell, joining the event, quitting the event.

Then trying to shame me on forums, but in the link shell directory of all places.

Then you ending up in a pug match with me, losing against me when you tried to zerg me,

Then sending me tells blaming your loss on the second best healer on our data network(guess what, a r38 healer can't save a rank 20 dragoon with a death wish, you shouldn't have tried to 1 v 1'd me near a wall, 40% of all balance matches were dueling training, I had full dot rotation on you, you were struggling with me wall bouncing you lol.). Giving me a third example of you warping what happened.....to what save face there?

Now we have the misuse of Robinhood to suit your needs.

Now I'm labeled impatient (my current que is 27:30, average wait time, 12 mins.). And told to suck it up? Again I asked you to engage in a conversation, not assume crap without knowing anything about it. Again not the best move to call somebody something when you don't know anything about them.

You end your perceived interaction with me with a statement: a few people agreed with me, so you must be win trading.

Almost 3k people have checked out this thread, I've gotten feed back from hundreds of players who have taken part in the event, and then there is me.

On your side you have a handful of opinions that cover not reading, cats pissing on birthday cakes, people wondering why intent is in the subject, and people who can't use definitions properly.

Calling someone a cheater, waiting for a few other people to prejudge a situation to judge, and then saying look I'm right. It actually gets you closer to being banned each time you do it. But don't worry, I'm not the type to report you, your free to pursue your own agenda.

Subscribe to what you want man, but don't try to call us win traders O.o Your calling me a cheater.

If your call me a cheater, you are entering the realm of consumer rights.

If you think someone is abusing a system, you judge it on knowledge and intent O.o

The intent was not to boost, nor was their knowledge of people frowning on or asking about the rule O.o.

When you investigate a claim:
You look at what you know.
What you think.
And what you have to prove what the claim is.

You never actually saw a set of friendlies, you claim we are cheaters just on what you think O.o

of 427 matches in 2 months, 32 of them were Balance matches. 7%. 40% of all balance matches were used for one on one training, 13 dueling matches. They came a week or two after balance matches, since people found them boring lol.

All and all, you knew nothing of the event, nor the people engaging in it >.> If you did, you would of brought it to this thread. As you can see, I had no problem submitting my tool for inspection. The problem is, this community is abrasive and doesn't know how to engage in conversation.

To end this, you preached about video games definitions changing all the time. No crap lol. Real definitions change all the time too. They change with conversations. Between people, about ideas. You were invited to have a conversation, not falsely accuse people of crap.

Of the two of us, in both the forums and game, your the one closer to being banned over harassment over me running an event with a faulty rule O.o.

OK I'm done on this subject. I know what Win Trading is. I'm going off the current definitions of win trading, not future made up ones. My event is not about boosting or win trading.

The balance rule has been replaced. If you have any future suggestions about my event, I'm sure you know where to post it. Now I'll do what everyone reading this really wants, shut up and move on. (I still really want to get into the robin hood thing though ;_

[Amada]

All and all, more expanding a definition to suit your needs, and now a fictional character to suit your needs.

Do you ever think for yourself or do you need the interwebz to tell you everything? Also you were running away from me and I was smoking you in the 1vs1. My healer didn't heal me and you got a ben also I had more dps with lower ilvl.

[Amada]

But in all there are like what 5 - 6 people here that say that what you are doing in the end is win trade. There are like 3 others that have said do what you wanna do to me that's not saying you are or aren't. I also know there were lots of people in your linkshell that thought it was win trade as you disbanded your linkshell over it. So I would have to say the community sys it's win trade. You have been the only person to try and defend it with crap you find posted on the interwebz. Just stop handing out wins at the end and what you got is nice 4vs4. This crap all started cause I said I wouldn't do handing out wins at the end. You got mad that I wouldn't do your friendlies and kept on trying to fight with me in your LS. All I want to do is pvp so I made my point and I am done posting here I've spent too much time on these forums I'm going to pvp.

[x037x]

But in all there are like what 5 - 6 people here that say that what you are doing in the end is win trade. There are like 3 others that have said do what you wanna do to me that's not saying you are or aren't. I also know there were lots of people in your linkshell that thought it was win trade as you disbanded your linkshell over it. So I would have to say the community sys it's win trade. You have been the only person to try and defend it with crap you find posted on the interwebz. Just stop handing out wins at the end and what you got is nice 4vs4. This crap all started cause I said I wouldn't do handing out wins at the end. You got mad that I wouldn't do your friendlies and kept on trying to fight with me in your LS. All I want to do is pvp so I made my point and I am done posting here I've spent too much time on these forums I'm going to pvp.

We all wish it was that simple, but you see, the FF community is a unique bunch when it comes to PVP. They CRY alot, they can't stand losing, they can't stand dealing with a challenge that the PVE heros in their FC can't carry them through.. Shach put it best:

Let's just face it. The FFXIV community is too pansy assed to allow for decent pvp in the game. Pvp requires an aggressive mindset amongst its players to be successful, especially in the arena format SE chose to start with. Unfortunately most of the people that enjoy FF enjoy the cute, snuggly, fluffy minions and the completely inane storyline and would rather have naked lallafel dance-offs then actually get in an arena and pound face with other players.So we have this problem.. Pvp is announced and implemented, people take it for a test drive. The dedicated few die hards are soon outranking the vast majority of casuals. Mass rapage ensues. Casuals fall in droves complaining about how unfair pvp is. SE attempts to fix it by casting die hards into the outer darkness of ridiculous queue times. Casuals fall away from even trying because... meh... I have a lallafel photo contest to take part in. Now the queue is broken for high ranks and no casuals bother queuing for low ranks. There are ways to game the system if your dedicated enough, which is how we have win traders hitting rank 40 already. But if you're not a part of one of those particular link shells then you are left in the cold. It's a shame really. It wouldn't take much for SE to fix the problems but because there are so few dedicated pvpers in the FF community, they can happily ignore it. Much more important to add some new fuzzy slippers and i110 oven mitts with hearts on them.

Now with that said, Kantei has worked pretty hard to try and organize 4v4 on our server sacrificing his own advancement to help out noobs doing 4v4s in the 30/40 bracket where you basically don't earn much wolf marks, his aim here was to train the noobs on how to PVP. It is extremely difficult to organize a group of 8 people of the appropriate rank for 4v4s and get quick queues. As far as wolf marks and XP goes, its really only worth doing it in the 50s bracket, but being the charitable guy that Kantei is, he'd organize 4v4 in the 30/40 bracket for noobs that had not even made it to level 50. Now when he did start to organize 4v4 in the 50s bracket, more times than not, one team would totally dominate, and guess what? In typical FF fashion, people started complaining, crying and quitting, simply because they could not come face to face with losing match after match after match, then they'd rage quit and say it wasn't worth their time. All it takes is one person to drop out and the 4v4 that took quite a while to put together would fall apart leaving everyone feeling they wasted their time while the 4v4 was organized. .. so in effect it was back to waiting 30+ min for a queue. The only reason Kantei started balancing wins at the end was to appease sore losers and give them an incentive to continue to participate in 4s. Doing some straight up win trading where matches last 10 sec could have been organized, but that wasn't Kantei's goal, his goal was to build a PVP community on Siren, if that was the case, we'd all be rank 40 by now. Trying to find people that want to PVP on Siren server is extremely difficult. This had to be done in order for people to keep participating. Like the quote I posted earlier notes, most of the FF community would rather have naked lalafell dance offs in Mor Dhona and flaunt their cute pink mittens around. Not sure what Rank you are Amada, but once you hit Rank 30+ the pvp queues grind to a screeching halt. What Kantei has been doing was literally the only way to some decent PVP time in with this badly implemented PVP system.

Honeslty Kantei, not sure why you even let this newcomer even get to you.. should have just booted him from the shell while they were in mid sentence.