"Friendlies"

[Kantei]

Ehh I am proud of the success the event has had, and how it grew my PvP shell, and brought everyone closer as a shell.

I helped a bunch of noobs get to rank 10ish and made PvP less intimidating for them. They did things like grind out to 16-20 on their own, and kept supporting the event while solo quing.

I am still waiting to see someone make a valid argument against a fancy name for practice matches.

I provided two definitions for win trading, and our model doesn't match it. Again, my model has nothing to do with win trading as it is defined.

If balance matches are deemed cheating by my peers, I will remove them from the event O.o Haven't seen a valid counter argument to practice matches and splitting exp evenly to avoid people focusing on the EXP aspect of what we do.

All I've seen is "you expect us to read?" And name calling lol. Those aren't arguments, suggestions, or engaging in a conversation about it.

Trust me, if I could host private matches without engaging in all this BS I would. But SE failed to give us those options to try to curb real win trading. So now we are left with less options in how engage in PvP, with win traders still getting their way O.o

[Kantei]

I'm on my phone still, next time I hit a PC, I will post the rules, and results of Friendlies.

7% of the matches fought were balance matches, 40% of all balance matches lasted over 3 mins due to dueling rules.

Again, all I did was try to make PvP a bit more noob friendly, provide matches between our members, and incorperate things that players request on these forums, like duels.

[Epistane]

If you REALLY aren't win trading and actually helping people then why do any of these people matter. Just keep doing what you're doing and tell everyone accusing you to go suck a hairy one. Ur trying too hard to defend this thing on these forums.. These forums almost as bad as WoW forums. Not worth writing novels about what ur doing, Just do what you gotta do.

Aether DC third world problems

[Mupod]

We had an FC event this weekend where everyone ran around in AF gear doing 4v4s. We set it up so all of our rank 30+ were 'team captains' and it worked out that we had enough low ranks to fill out 5 teams.

We never let anybody win though. If one team started dominating we tried to balance it out by changing the groups around...the main problems were that teams with high ranked healers had big advantages, and that we didn't find out everyone's ranks beforehand. We're doing it again next weekend and it should be much better since everyone will have access to all abilities.

It was fun watching people improve over a short period of time. My own team went from struggling to a 10+ game win streak once our healer and BLM got accustomed to pvp. Sure beats waiting 30 minutes for horribly unabalanced solo matches.

[Epistane]

We had an FC event this weekend where everyone ran around in AF gear doing 4v4s. We set it up so all of our rank 30+ were 'team captains' and it worked out that we had enough low ranks to fill out 5 teams.

Huh speaking of which, I'm thinking about setting up legit 4vs4's next weekend like we did back then in old days (can't remember if u took part in it tho, think it was mostly leviathan and hyperion players with ofc Behemoth), rank 30 gear ONLY though, if Ultros is interested.. the more the merrier

Sorry for derailing thread.. but yeah, I don't exactly agree with letting the losing team catch up on wins, that's why people here think you're trading.. If one team keeps losing and losing, then rotate members around, don't just let people win... Losing is an important aspect of PvP (well everything really)

[Kinseykinz]

Tlr version:
Win trading = trying to boost and out gear the community, using instant ques and matches that last 10 seconds. Can be used to boost to 40 very quickly. Features 30-45 matches an hour.

Friendlies = Choosing to not punish the losing team for losing during practice matches. And playing by alternate rule sets we agreed apon. Features roughly 10 matches an hour at most because we are actually fighting each other >.>.

....well, OR you could do friendlies, but mix the teams up themselves if one side keeps winning. That way you aren't just feeding them wins, and potentially by switching 1-2 players around you now swing the 'odds' so to speak in their favor, but they still have to work for it.

But anytime you rush in and just let people pummel you, so they can win at your expense=win trading.

[Kantei]

When team members ranks are too far apart, it becomes impossible to switch members around. Our ques run from instant to 3 mins if the math is off.

Switching teams would knock our ques into the 6-9 min range. With those types of ques, players would keep solo quing.

Trust me, players understand their losses, and learn from them. For two reasons:
A) They usually have rank 20-34 players on their team, they know they are the weak link. They keep saying "I'm sorry I suck, I just can't seem to do this."

We respond with "It's all good, we sucked at first too, focus on keeping yourself alive first, get some muscle memory for PvP, and expand from there."

By the time we get to the second set of friendlies, they are usually earning their wins, understand what their team is doing, and start expanding on what our team can do to the enemy, aka their friends/link shell mates.

B) our members tell them what they are doing wrong, they coach them. Our model has PvP noobs standing on their feet in 10-20 rounds versus the 50-200 rounds it takes most players to gain situational awareness in PvP.

On top of coaching, no one is yelling at them and telling them to quit now.

Not a single member of the event gets to choose what team they are on, the teams are randomized by math.


Balance matches were introduced to not punish the people I sign up to train new players.

Without them, players start focusing on which team is gaining the most exp. And then start getting less friendly about their advice.

And again, balance matches are usually only needed when we are training 1 new healer. When we are training two new healers....we'll they both suck so matches end up pretty even lol.

[Kantei]

Side note: Even though my last post argued against the a suggestion to fix my event, I only argued against it because I already tried that.

Thank you for the suggestions, I am listening and will adjust my event accordingly. But I am still seeking a better answer, SE will give me a better answer soon, front lines.

Until then, I am still go to run 4 v 4 practice matches so everyone gets used to playing, and communicating with one another O.o.

[Kinseykinz]

I'm not for or against wintrading....really until SE decides to take a stance who am I to judge it....besides, it really is a grind, there's no real reward for 'doing your best and still losing' etc....

My point was, technically anytime you just go in and lay down your sword, it's win-trading ....no matter how 'noble' your cause.

Also, if you can't wait 6-9 mins w/ friends for a queue....any queue, then really, that's kinda sad.

Still, yes most of the win-trading, and even your problem is simply the players solutions to working within (and/or around depending on your stance) of the long grind, little reward, and long queues for a short, low exp (even if you win btw) battle...that is side content. If SE would just address some of the simple problems in PvP....like the lack of reward vs. individual effort (okay, so i died....but I died in a blaze of glory and it took the other team over 3 mins to best me vs. I died and didn't even use a skill should in theory net different rewards but currently does not)

I get what you're trying to do...I respect it. I don't even care personally that you wintrade. I have my own FC with people who are interested in sticking their toes in the PvP pool...but I'd rather they occasionally solo queue to catch up to me than I feed them their ranks until they do so. (I'm only rank 15 and did it mostly solo....as a healer...I think they can manage the same)

[Kantei]

Lol thanks for a well adjusted post.

My people wait 6-9 mins in Friendlies if we must. But 6 matches in an hour is not an acceptable if matches at most last 8-10 mins lol.

They do solo que, all day and night O.o;; Group que all day and night lol.

My only point is, this event is a social and recruitment tool meant to train new people to the PvP scene. It is not a tool for boosting. It being a social tool, I made balance matches to keep the focus on the fights, and not who is gaining more exp off of noob farming.

Without splitting the rewards, people focus on the rewards. Instead of the point of the event, getting to know each other, and training potential teammates.

Laying down your sword is not win trading.
Win trading = Making arrangements to boost for personal gain.
Example:
Last week a group of players wore ghost costumes and meekly and ineffectively handed out wins to players. They never even seriously picked up their swords.

They trolled the PvP ques for the fun of it. They handed out free exp. They did not PvP as SE intended.

I know our community is having a ball expanding the definition of Win trading and all, but equal rewards does not = win trading lol. It takes intent to boost to win trade.