I don't understand...

[abzoluut]

Gormogon is just a troll. He comes in and speaks his opinion which is fine, but he comes after every dissenting post and reasserts his opinion again like we didn't hear him the first 10 times. He will do this forever until he gets the last word or people start ignoring him.

It has nothing to do with being elite, and most of us know that. To Gormogon expecting literally anything at all from other players is expecting too much.

Gormogon, we do get what you are saying. We just think you're flat out wrong. Find some way to come to terms with the fact people here disagree with you, will continue to disagree with you, and never will agree with you.

Wow, I thought I was the only one that noticed. Unfortunately he's not the only one. People use these forums to force their opinions on others. Maybe it's because of their real life job where they get bossed around? Who knows.

You explained it perfectly. *Like!*

Edit: I did not come back to this thread after I've had my last word. Figured this guy is just trolling in his underwear. Just read it. Man how I was right: "funny guy".

[Myo]

This thread is everything that is wrong with the Final Fantasy XIV community... on both sides of the casual-hardcore spectrum.

[Foo01]

This is my first MMO and I really like it but I am so confused so if I suck now and suck at level 50 it not for lack of effort but people taking a fun game world and trying to make it so serious just turns me off to the whole thing, the real world is serious but can l please just have some stress free fun away from that

The game should for fun and not a stress inducers. Play it to the level you feel comfortable. Don't let the elitist speed runners ruin your game experience. If you are tank or healer chances are you will run into them one of these days and they will try to force you do things you are not comfortable with. The proper response is just hold your ground keep doing what you are comfortable with and they will have to yield, because they can not push string no matter how hard they try or how mad they get.

If you are a DPS. most of the time they will just ignore you, but sometimes they will decide to be some busybody ninny and they will probably berate you for not optimizing your rotations or what not (BTW they think yelling at people with their condescending attitudes is polite advice because they've take their precious time to explain stuff to someone else.) They will also make up euphemism like "improvment" or wanting (i.e. forcing) you to improve. Don't let them stress you out, or guilt you, or force you to do stuff you are not ready for or simply do not want to.

Don't feel bad when the jerks like that start acting up. It is unfortunate that some dungeons are 4 players and it is not that uncommon for the 3 of them to know each other. If all 3 are speedrunners they are abusing the duty finder and just want to take advantage of the tank or healer that just happens to be available on the duty finder. The 3 on 1 situations like that are really unfair, because the majority of the player base is not like that and does NOT behave that way. If one them keeps harassing you report that guy to the GM. If they abuse the vote kick option, report all three of them. Also don't let them force you to skip cutscenes you are seeing for the first time. Additionally if you don't want to see spoilers and don't want to have to study videos of dungeons before your first encounter you should not have to. You have the right to see the game as fresh and new, but these elitist will even disparage you for that. In short, do NOT give into these bullies.

This thread is everything that is wrong with the Final Fantasy XIV community... on both sides of the casual-hardcore spectrum.

And this kind of statement is just all kinds of irresponsible and totally unclear. How the heck can the new player, casual players, or player so casual that they are basically non-players be even what is wrong. They can't be begin to tell top from bottom and yet they are guilty of some unspecificied accusations. This is just utter BS. Not all equivalences are valid. Just because people can debate whether the earth is round or flat, doesn't mean the "earth is round" guy is wrong the same way like "the earth is flat" guy is wrong. SE decisions to make the game more accessible more inclusive as draw in casual players is correct one. Trying to impose exclusivity like the way elitist do is flat out wrong.

[Odett]

snip

No one has said that new players are the problem. The problem is rude players and players who could be doing a lot better but do not do so out of sheer laziness (not out of gear). Also, from my experience, a lot of the time it is the player given the advice that becomes rude, and not the other way around (not all people giving advice are polite, but the majority of the rude responders are the players being called out).

If someone's new to something, and I can help with their rotation and tell them how to survive in a fight, I will do so in a polite manner. Again, new players are not the problem. The most annoying players are the ones who are doing what I like to call "skill roulette", and when you tell them how their rotation works, they either ignore you completely, or become rude. I have never been in a situation in DF where someone has been called out for not optimizing their rotation, but they certainly have and SHOULD be addressed if they have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

This is a multiplayer game, and if you choose to purposely play in a way that hinders others, then YOU (not you directly, this is a general statement) are the problem. Doing your correct rotation is not being an elitist or a min/maxer, it's far from it. Doing your correct rotation is what you're SUPPOSED to be doing. As a DPS, you don't get to say "I'm gonna play however I please" in a way that harms the group, because if a healer or a tank does that, the group will fail, and you are no exception.

Also, "fun" is a rather subjective term. To a lot of players, fun is getting the most you can out of your class and running content as smooth as they can, while to others, it can be doing whatever they want. None of these players' idea of fun trumps the other, but purposely harming the progress of a run is selfish and inconsiderate no matter how you look at it.

[Foo01]

... The problem is rude players and players who could be doing a lot better but do not do so out of sheer laziness ...

Stop with the assumotion that they are lazy or rude.

... Also, from my experience, a lot of the time it is the player given the advice that becomes rude...

Advice that is not asked for and comes across as a bossy command is likely get a poor reception. Perhaps the so called advice was rude to them. Rude is subjective.

This is a multiplayer game, and if you choose to purposely play in a way that hinders others, then YOU (not you directly, this is a general statement) are the problem.

Players deliberately causing wipes over and over are trolls. They need to be reported.

"Hinder" is too vague and subjective. Not optimizing is not hindering, because that is dependent on skill level and experience. Don't confuse trolls with players playing in earnest. So if we exclude the trolls from the discussion, then whole notion of "correct rotation" is bogus, different players will play a different style and that is totally ok.

Only the elitist insist on one optimized way and force everyone down that path. And it is the elitists that force the speed runs, because to them that is the only path of "correctness" and obviously to do so you must do the "correct optimized rotations."

.... purposely harming the progress of a run is selfish and inconsiderate ...

Only troll purposely harm the progress. Going slower is not harming the progress. Watching cutscenes for the first time is not being inconsiderate. Taking detours to grab loot is not harming. Not skipping mobs is not being inconsiderate. And not optimizing is not harming nor is it being inconsiderate.

To an elitist such talk blasphemy because everyone must follow their narrow strict path. That is not what any game is about much less a MMO where the whole point is to let people be free to be who their imagination takes them. Some them even want to be trolls, but that is why they get vote kicked, reported, and get to play by themselves.

[Gormogon]

Players deliberately causing wipes over and over are trolls. They need to be reported.

This is the bane of hard content. They should just make everything easy that way all this drama goes away.

[Foo01]

Players deliberately causing wipes over and over are trolls. They need to be reported.

This is the bane of hard content. They should just make everything easy that way all this drama goes away.

Player can wipe on hard content over and over but they are NOTdeliberately doing it. Only trolls goes and deliberately cause wipes.

Getting rid of hard content wont get rid of the trolls, they have caused wipes in Toto-rak, Haukke normal, Qarn, etc. and they have great fun at everyone else expense. Player need to be more patient, more persistent, and more discerning, but that may be too high bar for the elitist.

BTW drama is also part and parcel of the enterainment package. Some like it some don't, but it wouldn't be the same without it.

[Gormogon]

snip.

It wont but it will end all this dilemma regarding bad people that players seem to have issue with when doing content.

I've been in guilds with people that are in their late 60's that can't react to situational awareness at all and need to be carried through certain portions of content. Players that are 1-hand and can player better than others. Lazy players with real life titles and money that pay for their position in a FC and can get everything handed to them. Good players that suffer from latency issues due to location and service. Players that are parents that want to unwind and play but within minutes of finally sitting down to play they real life interferes with the game.

Some of those people you categorize as "trolls" aren't all really "trolls". Not every bad player is playing bad because they are out to deny you your content and get it a kick from it.

[Foo01]

Some of those people you categorize as "trolls" aren't all really "trolls". Not every bad player is playing bad because they are out to deny you your content and get it a kick from it.

I don't call people bad players. Only the elitist are the bad players. Trolls on the other hand do exist but are very rare, but they laugh at you when they cause a wipe. They will be gleefully celebrating that score, because to them that is the same as touch down or home run. I give all players the benefit of the doubt until they reveal themselves.

I'll be the first to admit that my patience is not infinite nor is my time. And when you wiped 15 time with 5 minutes remaining and looks like no chance for success I've elected to vote abandon, but that has also very rarely happened. What has happened way more often is the elitist that rage quits after the 1st or 2nd wipe. But they are not trolls, just obnoxious elitist speed runners and I run into them rage quitting at least twice to three times a week because someone on the team is bit undergeared, new, and caused a wipe or two.

[Odett]

snip

I think we're just misunderstanding each other here. I'm not saying that players who don't perform well are lazy. I'm saying that the problem are players who don't perform well BECAUSE they're lazy.

"Hey, try to do this...", or "this is how to avoid that" is how I phrase my advise, if someone thinks that is rude, the I'm really not sure what to tell them.

What's your definition of deliberately causing wipes? If a Dragoon is spamming Full Thrust in a DPS race and the party loses, and I tell them their correct rotation, and they say something rude and still Full Thrust, is that deliberately causing a wipe to you? Even in a scenario where it's not causing a wipe, that player is harming the run. If after you tell them their rotation and they make an attempt to implement it, then that is progress and good for them. If they keep doing what they were doing before, then that is selfish, not because I want a dungeon to end faster, but because that person is not making an honest effort to be a better part of the team, and they will go on and step into more dungeons and do the same exact thing.

Rotations are not written in stone, but there are skills that are intended to be used. If you're not keeping HT, Chaos Thrust, Disembowel, Phleb as a DRG, or DK, TS, ToD, and Demolish as MNK, then you have things to work on. Not using those skills is not "a player's style", if they are working on getting their rotation, then that's good, but purposely refusing to do so is not ok. A healer won't refuse to use Medica, and a Tank won't forego using Flash or RoH because it's not their style. Using your essential skills is not min/maxing. Now, a player's own style is stuff like not using Demolish on a monster that's about to die and instead using it on the next target, or using ToD on the 2nd mob because you know it won't have it's full effect on the first mob. As long as you are using your essential skills, that's great. I will min/max, but won't expect anyone else to.

I never said that harming progress is going slower (by this I assume you mean pulling less mobs? a tank should always pull what they're comfortable with), or watching cutscenes, and neither is taking detours from loot.