Turn 2 Enrage question

[Kuwagami]

snip.

Did you actually read what I wrote or did you stop at "T5 dives are the same" ?

I was merely saying that it was also not intended by the devs. of course it doesn't prevent the other mechanics. Yet it's still the same on the point that it wasn't intended.

I know you don't like the enrage (I don't like it either, especially since laser nerf), but don't throw straw men and read what the posts are about.

[ispano]

That's not abuse. It merely means people figured out a way to solve the puzzle that the designers didn't anticipate. But no one is abusing, or exploiting anything. That's like saying that overgearing content is "abuse". A well-geared party can skip entire phases of a fight or flat out ignore certain mechanics. Is that abuse? Is a Titan Extreme party comprised of 1 healer/1 tank/6 DPS abuse? SE clearly had some amount of leeway in mind in terms of using alternate strategies to beat content. Unexpected =/= exploit or abuse.

Think about it for a second. You're thinking abuse in a larger sense, or more akin to an exploit. That's not what i'm saying. Abusing enrage is taking advantage of the fact that it stops all of his other mechanics. Abuse != Exploit. I even SAID this earlier.

Various methods or strats on certain fights might be minor or major in this regard, T2 is major. T4, which uses a similar enrage mechanic, isn't even close to it since it doesn't stop the fight mechanics in the slightest, but adds to them. The T5 pit/divebomb method involves moving to a significant elevation difference before it hits, which to some might be more of a potential "exploit" than Enrage on T2. Except you still have to react and move quickly, otherwise you get hit still. So in severity they are miles apart.

Lastly, the main reason I go on about this in particular, is this. Before I got into my current static, I had to PuG 1-4/5 like many others, ok no problem. I would ALWAYS ask any 1-x or T2 group how they did T2, if they did enrage, I declined and said nothing more. Some of them asked why I wouldn't, I told them I disagreed with the method. Do you know what the most common response was? Things along the lines of telling me to "get off your high horse" and similar. I never pushed the subject or harassed them for using that method, never bashed them or anything. But that's what I got in return for choosing not to. So I refuse to let people say it's not something that it is.

Did you actually read what I wrote or did you stop at "T5 dives are the same" ?

I was merely saying that it was also not intended by the devs. of course it doesn't prevent the other mechanics. Yet it's still the same on the point that it wasn't intended.

I know you don't like the enrage (I don't like it either, especially since laser nerf), but don't throw straw men and read what the posts are about.

I read every post in a thread I respond to. Also, we have no idea if SE intended some things or not unless they say so directly, although I do agree that they didn't which is one of the reasons I won't do it. There's a difference between not intending something to be done a certain way, and not expecting it to be done a certain way. Lastly, my point was that making a single mechanic easier, be it considered an exploit or not, doesn't hold a candle to something that trivializes an entire encounter.

[givemeraptors]

Think about it for a second. You're thinking abuse in a larger sense, or more akin to an exploit. That's not what i'm saying. Abusing enrage is taking advantage of the fact that it stops all of his other mechanics. Abuse != Exploit. I even SAID this earlier...

...My point was that making a single mechanic easier, be it considered an exploit or not, doesn't hold a candle to something that trivializes an entire encounter.

Then overgearing content is also an "abuse" in your eyes. There are plenty of dungeons where you can blatantly ignore certain mechanics (or in some cases, not even know they exist) because you vastly overgear it. Then there's the way you can ignore melee mechanics by taking all ranged, and vice versa. I'm not going to tell you to get off your high horse and those players shouldn't care what you want to do, but it's not hard to see that you're turning it down because you think other players are abusing the system. No one wants to be accused of abusing or exploiting game mechanics, especially when there's nothing wrong with enrage and SE has stated that it was unexpected but fine. And you can't bypass ALL the mechanics, only the active ones. You still need to choose the appropriate path to go down to meet your party composition. No fight is 100% bypassable. You can skip certain mechanics or phases but you must still work within certain limitations of the system. If SE truly cared they would have modified it like the Doom mechanic in Qarn.*

*Originally when the Terataur cast Doom it was as an AoE. Pulling him into a corner having everyone else run to the far end of the room meant they could escape the debuff by being out of range. They patched it so it hits everyone now, I believe.

[skaterger]

Because its more fun to mash buttons like a bot than actually having to think and cultivate raid awareness.

[ispano]

Then overgearing content is also an "abuse" in your eyes. There are plenty of dungeons where you can blatantly ignore certain mechanics (or in some cases, not even know they exist) because you vastly overgear it. Then there's the way you can ignore melee mechanics by taking all ranged, and vice versa. I'm not going to tell you to get off your high horse and those players shouldn't care what you want to do, but it's not hard to see that you're turning it down because you think other players are abusing the system. No one wants to be accused of abusing or exploiting game mechanics, especially when there's nothing wrong with enrage and SE has stated that it was unexpected but fine. And you can't bypass ALL the mechanics, only the active ones. You still need to choose the appropriate path to go down to meet your party composition. No fight is 100% bypassable. You can skip certain mechanics or phases but you must still work within certain limitations of the system. If SE truly cared they would have modified it like the Doom mechanic in Qarn.*

*Originally when the Terataur cast Doom it was as an AoE. Pulling him into a corner having everyone else run to the far end of the room meant they could escape the debuff by being out of range. They patched it so it hits everyone now, I believe.

Again, the passive ones mean very little in terms of people having to think, or co-ordinate with the group and such. You don't need to think about you doing less damage due to a magic defense buff on the boss. Active mechanics have a purpose, and bypassing them all defeats the point of the fight. Regardless of what SE has allowed(which is also why I didn't say anything to people who do it) It would have been fixed very quickly if the game was made by another developer. Also, you can still have most of your group bypass Doom. Think how people avoid divebombs on Twin and it's obvious.

T2 is the most extreme case of players not wanting to learn all the mechanics of a fight, and just simply ignore them. Because that's really what it is. I've seen it in other games, but typically those get fixed. Not left in. Yes, not wanting to learn the mechanics. Why? Not because they do enrage because it's easier, but because if you get most of them into a party doing it normally, they won't. I know, i've seen it. They refuse to even try.

[Kuwagami]

@ispano #25
that's not true anymore. with the laser nerf, if you go the fire star way (left one iirc) with full ranged team, enrage and nornal way have zero difference besides the tank swap. people do one turn of rot, stack and eat all the lasers because they don't one shot anymore at ilevel 70. The fight becomes a dummy fight with even less things to care of and a lot less of heal stress, and that after roughly 1 minute.

All in all, being in post nerf era, I'd rather use the enrage. T2's mechanics aren't fun anymore

[ispano]

@ispano #25
that's not true anymore. with the laser nerf, if you go the fire star way (left one iirc) with full ranged team, enrage and nornal way have zero difference besides the tank swap. people do one turn of rot, stack and eat all the lasers because they don't one shot anymore at ilevel 70. The fight becomes a dummy fight with even less things to care of and a lot less of heal stress, and that after roughly 1 minute.

All in all, being in post nerf era, I'd rather use the enrage. T2's mechanics aren't fun anymore

Some people find "breaking" of an encounter to not be fun, regardless of tedium and such. I always try to play to the best of my ability, even when I solo simple mobs out in the overworld. It's far from the best example, but to me it's akin to regularly exercising to stay in shape.

[Sounders]

Because its more fun to mash buttons like a bot than actually having to think and cultivate raid awareness.

It's more fun to mash buttons like a bot than wiping because you're with scrub pugs. Elite players no longer do T1-4.