Dragoons need to be buffed...

[JetBrooks]

[YanderePrincess]

snip

Monk is definitely not a no brainer because you have to keep track of where you are for each attack you use and your rotation is constantly changing (or at least that's how it feels). It's extremely difficult for me because I have ADHD and it just overwhelms my focus trying to keep track of all that and dodge aoes. I have a similar problem with Summoner because it's got no set rotation, but rather constantly adjusting its order (in many ways worse than monk, actually, but without the position-based issue to also worry about so that lessons the burden).

BLM, DRG, and BRD work much better for me because the rotations on blm and drg are much more straight forward and don't constantly shift, with far less to keep track of (though I also admit I use a slightly simplified drg rotation that's not going to quite succeed at reaching max potential dps, but I work within my limitations to do the best I can). Bard lacks a set rotation, kinda like summoner, but is still much simpler, since it pretty much boils down to "spam Heavy Thrust, activate procs, refresh venomous/wind bite.

[whiskeybravo]

And you are insisting that you can't make up 3 seconds of buff drop time and 60pot or so of positional damage. Oh cry me a river.

You can even have no changes at all to whatever rotation that you don't seem to want to modify, and still your lost is 15% or so for 3-5 seconds.

Wee that's a whole miss auto attack there.

The whole drg rotation is based on non clipping ideal. Clipping it or delaying it is not the end of the world when it happens.

Every DPS on the map has it much worse the drg in that respect

I'm with Kuku here. Missing once or twice, or even 3 times is *in my experience* not usually detrimental in something like a 10 min fight (to either job). If it's a constant problem then yes, it would be a huge dps loss and needs to be corrected. The only exception I can see is in strictly burst-damage situations where absolutely every GCD counts.

[BlackThought]

And you are insisting that you can't make up 3 seconds of buff drop time and 60pot or so of positional damage. Oh cry me a river.

You can even have no changes at all to whatever rotation that you don't seem to want to modify, and still your lost is 15% or so for 3-5 seconds.

Good lord, you're dense. Is there a time machine ability I'm unaware of? If not the answer is yes. I cannot make up that time. Potential DPS loss is lost because that's... how... it... works.

[kukurumei]

Good lord, you're dense. Is there a time machine ability I'm unaware of? If not the answer is yes. I cannot make up that time. Potential DPS loss is lost because that's... how... it... works.

SO how is that different from ever other class.

Everyone knows that it is delaying higher potency combos faster(oooh nos my Chaos thrust is going to come later), and a retry slows that, but only you seem to believe it is some pinnacle of importance. But smell the roses, every class has that problem.

You're calling dense when... in the end it's a minor issue. 1st step failure starts from step1, not step 2 or step 3, step1.

[BlackThought]

I'm with Kuku here. Missing once or twice, or even 3 times is *in my experience* not usually detrimental in something like a 10 min fight (to either job). If it's a constant problem then yes, it would be a huge dps loss and needs to be corrected. The only exception I can see is in strictly burst-damage situations where absolutely every GCD counts.

I don't think the severity over a protracted fight was ever the point of contention. At least, that's not anything I've discussed

[YanderePrincess]

I'm not talking about potency, I'm talking about the mechanical aspect of the ability, it sucks.

Of course you can use it at melee range, I just dislike how it keeps you planted for a long time. There's no benefit to the ability jumping you to the enemy, and then back. If ya really want that functionality for some reason, just put a shorter cooldown on Elusive Jump, and allow us to Elusive back away from the mob after a jump.

It doesn't keep you planted for a long time, and it hasn't done so since 2.1. Do you even bother trying to move/activate an ability or do you just assume you have to wait for the whole animation to finish? You're just making yourself sound ignorant.

I did find the mechanic awkward when I first started playing (and to be fair, the mechanic -was- awkward back then because it needed tweaking, which it got), but I was also used to games with gap closers, and the only game with an ability that resembled Jump had it on a ranged champion and it acted as a short stun/interrupt upon hitting the target while placing you at your max basic attack range (regardless of whether you were closer or further away before activating the ability).

However, it was easy to see why they designed it how they did, especially since they did also give us two other targeted gap closers (spineshatter and dragonfire) as well as a non-targeted ability that can also be used as a gap closer (elusive jump). Jump is designed to mimic the original Dragoon ability of Jump as it was in every FF prior to FFXI. Granted, this is largely a visual thing since it worked this way because of the mechanics in the old FF games, but it's something I rather like and after they fixed the "locked down" aspect of the jumps in 2.1, it's worked perfectly fine mechanically while still maintaining the old FF feel.

[BlackThought]

SO how is that different from ever other class.

Everyone knows that it is delaying higher potency combos faster(oooh nos my Chaos thrust is going to come later), and a retry slows that, but only you seem to believe it is some pinnacle of importance. But smell the roses, every class has that problem.

You're calling dense when... in the end it's a minor issue. 1st step failure starts from step1, not step 2 or step 3, step1.

I've never argued that it wasn't minor. If you want to change the parameters of the discussion that's obviously fine but don't misrepresent what I'm saying here. Any discussion of DPS is going to boil down to inches, frankly.

[YanderePrincess]

I'm with Kuku here. Missing once or twice, or even 3 times is *in my experience* not usually detrimental in something like a 10 min fight (to either job). If it's a constant problem then yes, it would be a huge dps loss and needs to be corrected. The only exception I can see is in strictly burst-damage situations where absolutely every GCD counts.

Agreed. Only time I've really been annoyed on Heavy Thrust is when I'm trying to throw one out before RoT spam in a situation like the first spider-thingies spawn in T4, and even then it's generally only if I'm 1) slow to get into the fray and 2) the tank is having trouble getting position right for his overpowers and so is causing them to constantly change direction repeatedly. And, even then, it usually works out fine to just do a few RoTs until things settle down more, then throw out a Heavy Thrust and resume the RoTs. Small DPS loss, but not enough to pose a problem.

On the other hand on monk, seems like every time I'm ready to get behind a mob for my rear rotation, it insists on facing me even if it's not attacking me.

[Sygmaelle]

Melusine has a set rotations of when she's going to do Circle of Flame. It's not hard to adjust and still get Heavy Thrust in or even Impulse Drive.

Yeah ok, tell that to the vast majority of players that aren't able to refresh HT when circle of flames is on, just because they are like 1 second late and are just screwed with the hitbox.

Didn't say it was hard, its just way harder than redoin a flank attack / dragon kick on a monk simply because well the hitbox in their case is WAY larger for the effect to be applied which is clearly not the case for us