Let's talk about PvP

[Demacia]

Actually, well made FPS has a campaign with replay value in order to get "100% completion". Most FPS these days have campaigns that are generally completely optional because their focus is on the Multiplayer. You're just adamant in believing people wouldn't choose PvP over PvE which you know deep down is a lie.

You're the one who hasn't come up with a "decent argument" as to why you believe PvP wouldn't overtake PvE like it does in most MMOs -- especially if PvP is lucrative.

Great, but how often will you replay the same campaign before you get bored as opposed to multiplayer where you can go against real people instead of the AI and maps you've completely memorized? The difference is that the single-player experience in ANY game will be LIMITED while the multiplayer experience is NOT.

So you're afraid of people spending too much time having fun in PvP than grinding mobs in PvE? Fine, make it so you can't really level up from PvP and give cosmetic/material rewards. I'm adamant in believing that people should have the option to play against each other in a massively multiplayer game. PvE comes first, but PvP should always be available.

[Eekiki]

It makes no difference to me really. I have games with actual potential to look forward to. I was just hoping people would be a tad more reasonable when considering this game's future. But once more, I do have to consider that I'm not posting in the most reasonable of boards. People here will tell me that Market Wards are better than a UI based AH style market, and then people will tell me that PvP should be completely excluded from an MMO in 2011 "just because".

I must have not been clear in my reasoning. I'm at lunch now, so let me put more thought into it.

My opinion is not that PvP should be completely excluded. In my opinion, SE's strength as far as MMORPG's are concerned is PvE content, and I feel there is a very real possibility that the quality of XIV's PvE content will suffer if SE starts to worry about including PvP "just because" it's 2011, which is why I references FPS's. The attitude in that genre is that a FPS today must have competitive multiplayer. I think there is a good market for an FPS that has no multiplayer, but has a top-notch single-player campaign. We'll have to wait until Valve finally gets around to making Half-Life 3 to see if I'm right or not.

Similarly, though, I feel there's also a market for a solid PvE-only MMORPG. FFXIV could be that game, but if they decide, "Hey, we better do PvP! It is 2011 after all!" then they risk spreading themselves too thin, and the overall quality of the whole game would suffer. Better that they keep things simple and focus on their strength.

[Demacia]

I must have not been clear in my reasoning. I'm at lunch now, so let me put more thought into it.

My opinion is not that PvP should be completely excluded. In my opinion, SE's strength as far as MMORPG's are concerned is PvE content, and I feel there is a very real possibility that the quality of XIV's PvE content will suffer if SE starts to worry about including PvP "just because" it's 2011, which is why I references FPS's. The attitude in that genre is that a FPS today must have competitive multiplayer. I think there is a good market for an FPS that has no multiplayer, but has a top-notch single-player campaign. We'll have to wait until Valve finally gets around to making Half-Life 3 to see if I'm right or not.

Similarly, though, I feel there's also a market for a solid PvE-only MMORPG. FFXIV could be that game, but if they decide, "Hey, we better do PvP! It is 2011 after all!" then they risk spreading themselves too thin, and the overall quality of the whole game would suffer. Better that they keep things simple and focus on their strength.

I sincerely doubt that having PvP will affect PvE in a negative matter. FFXI's strength is in its PvE and there's no doubt about that, but when my exp party breaks, I finish my rank missions, and I got the drop from some NM after spending 6 hours camping it, is it really that bad for me to want to get together with a few people and have some fun playing against each other? I am not suggesting that they make PvP as big as it is in WoW where it does affect the PvE side, but I would like it to be slightly better than FFXI's while being just significant enough to attract some people and not having it die out completely like it has on some of FFXI's servers.

[Eekiki]

Great, but how often will you replay the same campaign before you get bored as opposed to multiplayer where you can go against real people instead of the AI and maps you've completely memorized? The difference is that the single-player experience in ANY game will be LIMITED while the multiplayer experience is NOT.

That's a very good point, but why play BioShock 2 or F.3.A.R.'s multiplayer, when you could play Team Fortress 2 or Counter Strike? Fantastic multiplayer FPS's with no single-player campaign. Remember Counter-Strike: Condition Zero? A single-player campaign for Counter Strike. And it sucked.

Likewise, you have Guild Wars, an online RPG with a heavy focus on PvP. And it's great. And I think Guild Wars 2 is going to suck, because they're trying to do too much at once.

This is a general philosophy I've been thinking of lately. I think a lot of things in this world are getting too complicated. Things need to be simplified. That's why I threw away my ridiculous 5 blade fusion razor and bought a good double-edged safety blade. Thanks to that I've got the best shave I've ever had.

[Demacia]

That's a very good point, but why play BioShock 2 or F.3.A.R.'s multiplayer, when you could play Team Fortress 2 or Counter Strike? Fantastic multiplayer FPS's with no single-player campaign. Remember Counter-Strike: Condition Zero? A single-player campaign for Counter Strike. And it sucked.

Likewise, you have Guild Wars, an online RPG with a heavy focus on PvP. And it's great. And I think Guild Wars 2 is going to suck, because they're trying to do too much at once.

This is a general philosophy I've been thinking of lately. I think a lot of things in this world are getting too complicated. Things need to be simplified. That's why I threw away my ridiculous 5 blade fusion razor and bought a good double-edged safety blade. Thanks to that I've got the best shave I've ever had.

Well, here's the thing and once again I'll be using FFXI as an example: I like FFXI as it's both visually appealing and the combat system, to me, is enjoyable. I like the job system, the variety that subjobs provide, and the unique aspects and abilities of all the different jobs and weapons. I played GW and WoW, but found them both boring, ugly, and just dull in general. Even if GW and WoW had way better PvP than FFXI, I still prefer FFXI's PvP because I prefer FFXI over the other two in general. I wanted to fight against other players and formulate new builds and strategies based around FFXI's combat system and job system, so assuming FFXIV ever becomes a great game, I would like to be able to do the same thing.

And that is to slap people around on my Pugilist using completely different strategies than I would in PvE, since this time I'd have to actually outsmart/outplay a human being.

[Symon17]

As dull as I might sound, no direct PvP unless it's on a horde of rank 13 lalafell conjurers that suspicously teleport to Horizon en mass and do nothing, then teleport away.

Thank God you've seen them too. I was starting to think I'd gone off my rocker.

[Eekiki]

Well, here's the thing and once again I'll be using FFXI as an example: I like FFXI as it's both visually appealing and the combat system, to me, is enjoyable. I like the job system, the variety that subjobs provide, and the unique aspects and abilities of all the different jobs and weapons. I played GW and WoW, but found them both boring, ugly, and just dull in general. Even if GW and WoW had way better PvP than FFXI, I still prefer FFXI's PvP because I prefer FFXI over the other two in general. I wanted to fight against other players and formulate new builds and strategies based around FFXI's combat system and job system, so assuming FFXIV ever becomes a great game, I would like to be able to do the same thing.

And that is to slap people around on my Pugilist using completely different strategies than I would in PvE, since this time I'd have to actually outsmart/outplay a human being.

This makes a lot of sense.

"assuming FFXIV ever becomes a great game" ...that's a big "if". ^_^

[Amadas]

PvP wouldn't really fit in to this game I think, but... given the fact that the PvE isn't exactly stellar, I don't care at this point.

Out of all the things said here, this most closely reflects my opinion. I feel like something drastic needs to happen if this game is hoping to succeed at all. I sincerely believe that if they clean up the battle system and make PvP rewarding to its own end, people might find that they like it more than they think. Some players are irrationally anti-PvP but I think they should at least be open to the thought and see how it all plays out.

[Kaizlu]

As others have stated, the strength of FFXIV is PvE. If PvP were to be implemented it should be after SE "fixes" the core game. I see no reason to add something more to the "to-do" list right now seeing as how the base is far from perfect.

Also, when I read/hear PvP it just reminds me of "The World" (.hack//) and all of the crazy stories about PKs and PPKs, etc..crazy I tell ya'!

[BloodLotus]

Yoshi already said that when he began to consider putting pvp into ffxiv that there would be no PK.

So we're looking at friendly challenges not open pvp.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...579&howmany=50