WAR Adjustments

[bokchoykn]

Holmgang is sweet.

You could use it vs Leviathan to interrupt Dreadstorm from the Caster Adds. Also works in Turn 9 for interrupting any spell cast from the Dalamud Spawns.

[Sibyll]

Holmgang is sweet.

You could use it vs Leviathan to interrupt Dreadstorm from the Caster Adds. Also works in Turn 9 for interrupting any spell cast from the Dalamud Spawns.

An interrupt on a 180 sec CD. Oh snap.

[Remn]

@bokchoykn
can you use Holmgang to interrupt the demolition from green golem or Red golem heavy strike?

[subteraneanbird]

It's always been my personal opinion that Holmgang should stop Titan from jumping. Geocrush? Nah dude.

[Illya]

Holmgang is sweet.

You could use it vs Leviathan to interrupt Dreadstorm from the Caster Adds. Also works in Turn 9 for interrupting any spell cast from the Dalamud Spawns.

I'm pretty sure the complaints about Holmgang center around it's uselessness in most situations as an OH SHIT button like PLD's Hallowed Ground. This is separate from the utility function of Leash and Root that it is used for, which is aggravating because it Roots the WAR and usually causes the WAR to die when used for the OH SHIT function because you're standing there while mobs pound on you or the boss is charging it's next attack to kill you. You cannot for example use Holmgang to survive Death Sentence during the Twisters phase because if you do, you'll be rooted when Twisters happens and be oneshotted. The PLD uses Hallowed Ground and is free to run around and avoid the Twisters.

All bosses are immune to the Leash and Root that it causes anyways though except the giant slime no one cares about in WP, so basically you can only use it on adds and even then as you have already shown it's usefulness is highly limited.

Honestly if they would just remove the Root on the WAR on Holmgang I would accept the skill as it is even with the short 6 seconds duration. It's the Root on the WAR that makes Holmgang total shit, the problem of combining the OH SHIT button, the leash button, and the knockback prevention button into 1 skill instead of being 3 different skills in any sane skillset design isn't really so bad in real world usage because you rarely have to use Hallowed Ground and Tempered Will at the same time or very close to each other as PLD.

[bokchoykn]

An interrupt on a 180 sec CD. Oh snap.

The point is that it can interrupt things that can't be interrupted by conventional means. A Dreadstorm on the final phase of Leviathan (due to crappy or dead DPS) could wipe your group. An interrupted Demolish in T9 can save your party from taking 3000 damage each.

It might be a 180s cooldown, but the ONE time you need it, it's great. Oh snap, indeed.

I don't know why you guys expect Holmgang to be as good as Hallowed Ground. Hallowed Ground is one of the greatest assets a Paladin has over a Warrior. It is the most OP ability in the game. Warrior has many other advantages over Paladin. Our damage is better. Storm's Path is better than Rage of Halone. Our AoE aggro and damage is better. We have on-demand DR with Inner Beast for damage bursts. Our class is actually fun to play.

Don't compare Holmgang to Hallowed Ground. Don't expect Holmgang to be as powerful as Hallowed Ground. The two tanking classes are already too homogenized as it is. Accept the fact that Hallowed Ground is better Be thankful that Holmgang is still useful.

[Umbeliel]

Something that's largely glossed over by a lot of people and is pretty stressful: the 2.1 changes were a buff..... To healers. The damage reduction is nice, but our independence on the whole took a huge hit.
I could complain all day about 2.1 changes on the whole, but as it stands the balance between Warrior and Paladin only exists as far as "They both can theoretically do the same content without the outright impossibility of 2.0"- there is absolutely nothing that a Warrior can do currently that a Paladin can't do better, with the two exceptions of snap AoE enmity and in stance dps, so much so that there wouldn't even be a reason to take a Warrior to anything if they didn't hit Bards with that nerf to Rain of Death and move it to Path..... But that is an entirely separate beast to tackle.

As it stands, IB, used constantly, only contributes about the same net damage reduction as simply equipping a shield does- which is the same function it had back in 2.0 (Sort of. It works better now to that point, at least.) and it does have the benefit of being on demand, yes, but the paladin cooldown suite effectively means that they can do that to the same effect- A 30 second cooldown rotation (combining bulwark and foresight[when applicable], and Convascalence and Awareness as a pair always) will leave you with very few "No mitigation" moments, except shield oath is always up and shield block can always happen. Self stoneskinning and the benefit from Flash's blind are huge utility that Warrior has absolutely nothing on. On top of the fact that their cooldowns pretty much cover everything anyway, shield block itself is something that can and is a thing that paladins can influence! It's the entire debate on onion shield vs everything else.

Defiance itself serves no real purpose to a Warrior's own capabilities other than reducing our damage and locking out all of our job skills. Brutal Swing is trash compared to Shield Bash and serves little to no purpose depending on the encounter. Holmgang is only very very rarely ever useful- the bastard child Squenix tried to cover up with a bandaid, I'm not even going to pretend it warrants any legitimate comparison to anything paladin has. Even Berserk's 50% attack power increase is effectively worse than FoF's 30% damage buff. I said this already, but the only good reason anyone will have for taking a Warrior to anything would be Storm's Path- which puts Paladins into OT positions often not because Warriors are better, but because they're worse at OTing than a Paladin would be, but they basically have to be around. If anything, the fact that Warrior actually has to use gladiator skills to be relevant in any post T4 content exemplifies that- you have the real tank and that second option they just sort of threw in and don't know what to do with. There is absolutely no balance between the two past the absolutely most superficial level possible.

There are a lot of things that can be done- buffing IB's heal specifically would be a good start.

[Sibyll]

The point is that it can interrupt things that can't be interrupted by conventional means. A Dreadstorm on the final phase of Leviathan (due to crappy or dead DPS) could wipe your group. An interrupted Demolish in T9 can save your party from taking 3000 damage each.

It might be a 180s cooldown, but the ONE time you need it, it's great. Oh snap, indeed.

I don't know why you guys expect Holmgang to be as good as Hallowed Ground. Hallowed Ground is one of the greatest assets a Paladin has over a Warrior. It is the most OP ability in the game. Warrior has many other advantages over Paladin. Our damage is better. Storm's Path is better than Rage of Halone. Our AoE aggro and damage is better. We have on-demand DR with Inner Beast for damage bursts. Our class is actually fun to play.

Don't compare Holmgang to Hallowed Ground. Don't expect Holmgang to be as powerful as Hallowed Ground. The two tanking classes are already too homogenized as it is. Accept the fact that Hallowed Ground is better Be thankful that Holmgang is still useful.

I'm still not impressed by a skill that is occasionally useful on very specific fights. I might as well not be there.

And please don't misread me. I don't want Holmgang to be Hallowed Ground. To be frank I think it's retarded to expect a Level 42 Marauder class skill to be comparable to a Level 50 Paladin Job skill. What I'd like to see is the skill have a specific purpose and be useful for that purpose rather than have it be a half-baked Hallowed Ground which is what it currently is.

[bokchoykn]

There are a few actually truly useless skills in this game. Holmgang is not one of them. A Warrior cannot OT Leviathan without Holmgang. It is very useful in T9 (Take an entire Bahamut's claw without it dying).

If you wanna talk useless, look no further than Haymaker, One Ilm Punch, and Awareness. I'd give up Bloodbath and Foresight before I'd give up Holmgang.

[Sibyll]

There are a few actually truly useless skills in this game. Holmgang is not one of them. A Warrior cannot OT Leviathan without Holmgang. It is very useful in T9 (Take an entire Bahamut's claw without it dying).

If you wanna talk useless, look no further than Haymaker, One Ilm Punch, and Awareness. I'd give up Bloodbath and Foresight before I'd give up Holmgang.

The thing is that I use Bloodbath and Foresight almost off cool down. While it may be arguable whether the uptime of the skill makes up for the lower impact, the purpose of those skills is very clear. Holmgang's purpose is not very clear. It tries to do too much and as a result it does nothing well.

My opinion of Haymaker is the same as my opinion of Keen Flurry and Featherfoot, melee DPS were intended to off-tank for certain mechanics (Garuda Extreme) and these skills exist as tools for that role. Unfortunately, most people would prefer to overload the main or off tank than to accept the fact that Monks and Lancers are fully capable of tanking because their skill sets were designed with this idea in mind, but I digress.

As for One-Ilm Punch, it has no real use now but it is perfectly possible that there will be mechanics that allow certain buffs to be removed in which case it will be used accordingly.

Awareness is just silly. I'm not sure why they even wasted a skill on Sword Oath.

Just a note, I don't think Warriors need special treatment. Other classes have some really lack luster skills that simply exist. It'd be nice to see those get some love as well so that they are actually worth being on the action bar.