So, appearantly I got added to a 'list'

[whiskeybravo]

I can't help but wonder if it's just a bunch of Black Mages / classes that are getting locked out that feel this way. I watched for a week as I saw every 'farm' party lead by a BLM either having it explicitely stated 'Caster body locked', or they just didn't allow Black Mages / Summoners to join. My solution was simply to do much the same - make my own party, and lead it myself so I could get my own piece of gear.

I always see T2 parties with either full caster or single caster, a lot of caster gear drops from T2 so it's understandable why someone would be upset - but it doesn't really merit "harassment". They are more than free to start their own PF group with their own rules, so it's just silly to argue or debate with someone about it. Just move on lol

The only gray area I see, and don't really understand if this was the case or not - if you started a Greed only party but you were the only one that "needed" something, in effect exempting yourself from the rest of the party rules. I don't know if that's "against the rules" per se, but it would be quite unethical.

[Eidolon]

I always see T2 parties with either full caster or single caster, a lot of caster gear drops from T2 so it's understandable why someone would be upset - but it doesn't really merit "harassment". They are more than free to start their own PF group with their own rules, so it's just silly to argue or debate with someone about it. Just move on lol

The only gray area I see, and don't really understand if this was the case or not - if you started a Greed only party but you were the only one that "needed" something, in effect exempting yourself from the rest of the party rules. I don't know if that's "against the rules" per se, but it would be quite unethical.

Nah, I only made a N>G party where I only locked the caster body piece (The last piece I needed), so any job joining could get their piece too. I didn't roll on anything else because - to be quite honest - I have everything from T2 'cept the Healer neck.

Edit-in: I also went as black mage, and locked the other slots for non-casters to prevent ninja-looting. However, I invited a summoner who only needed the boots when they sent me a tell.

[infinitezero]

I can't even believe this thread is still going on. Guess I can't say much about that though since I can't seem to bite my tongue on it either.

It's real simple though. If you've ever joined one of these parties you'd know that nobody ever has a problem with you locking your own specified loot as long as you agree not to roll on theirs. If everyone gets to lock in their own drop, it's to your advantage if you don't want what others have locked. This makes it completely fair, and nobody is being any more or less selfish than the next person. Even if someone has locked something I want, I'll just lock something else or leave respectfully. No sweat off my back.

To me loot locking is equivalent to any other Party Finder restriction. Only join if cleared, item level requirement, watching cut scenes, serious play with high level gear, etc. It's what the party leader wants, they can rightfully set that restriction, and being that they are the ones who have to wait the longest for people to join, I'd say it affects them more than some random person browsing the Party Finder having personal issues about something that doesn't apply to them. I guess I'm just respectful and open minded enough to know that if I don't like a certain restriction or certain activity in general, I do not have to participate and just understand that it's there for the people who do. I leave others to their own devices, just as I expect them to leave me to mine.

Also, to the point of Party Finder being a public space... sure, I'll give you that. But if you open your mind and look at the bigger picture you'll see it for what it really is: A public space to advertize for private groups. It's sort of like a yard sale in the paper, in that it doesn't make the advertisers front lawn a public space. It only extends an invitation to their private property.

If you think about it, people calling this selfish, immoral and disgusting... can be equated to a white, asian, or mexican (or whatever really) person saying the United Negro College Fund is being selfish, immoral, and disgusting because it excludes them. No, it's just not there for YOU. Move along.

EDIT: In case you're not a fan of that analogy, think teenagers vs. retirement homes or healthy people vs. cancer funds. Whatever floats your boat.

[Issac]

If someone wants to make a party where only 21 and older men who are willing to do a shot after every boss are invited that is their right.
This is the same scenario.

I never disputed their freedom to do so. I just think it's wrong to reserve gear in a public setting. Reserve gear with DKP, or amongst your peers within a private group, like a linkshell or FC. This is my opinion.

your morals consist of telling seven other people that they are playing the game wrong and that they should change their loot rule to suit your needs

at least thats what ive gathered from reading your posts. the funny thing is, you actually called them the dictators >.<

If you had read my other posts carefully, I had clearly stated that I have never been so rude as to join a group with these rules posted and rained on their parade. I am simply here voicing my opinion. A strong one, yes, but it is as it is. Nothing will change my mind on the matter, I think it's wrong to do. I think it's even more wrong to throw a tantrum and contact a GM about someone not following their silly requirements. And again, I would not do this myself, but I do not empathize with those that are "victim" to people not following along.

[Eidolon]

Snippers~ :3 <3

I sort of like the point another person made. You're acting like you have the right to be in any party, at any time. And to be fair - you don't. Parties are like, as another poster drew the comparison, the 'private property' of the leader, and the ones who choose to join that party are falling under that leader and wanting them to make an effective party that can clear content and get -everyone- gear in the long run.

I think that, instead of saying it's 'morally bad', you should be calling it 'greedy' - I think that's a more apt to describe the action as such, because for all intents and purposes, it IS selfish. But when you bring an absolute definition of 'morality' into it, I think you're being over-reaching in your statements, and you're just insulting people at that point.

[Issac]

I sort of like the point another person made. You're acting like you have the right to be in any party, at any time. And to be fair - you don't. Parties are like, as another poster drew the comparison, the 'private property' of the leader, and the ones who choose to join that party are falling under that leader and wanting them to make an effective party that can clear content and get -everyone- gear in the long run.

I think that, instead of saying it's 'morally bad', you should be calling it 'greedy' - I think that's a more apt to describe the action as such, because for all intents and purposes, it IS selfish. But when you bring an absolute definition of 'morality' into it, I think you're being over-reaching in your statements, and you're just insulting people at that point.

So wait, greed is not morally bad?
Maybe you're starting to understand my position, even if you don't agree with it.

[Doo]

So wait, greed is not morally bad?
Maybe you're starting to understand my position, even if you don't agree with it.

That's not really greed to item lock something. Just like it's not really greed to require ilvl and someone to know the fight. You're looking for particular players. Even if it is, everyone is greedy to a certain degree, even the people that call others greedy.

[Eidolon]

So wait, greed is not morally bad?
Maybe you're starting to understand my position, even if you don't agree with it.

Greed I don't think is morally wrong, no, it's the way in which greed is exercised that can become morally wrong. If, like you said, I was merely locking -all- black mage loot, then I could see where the excess would be morally reprehensible. However, locking a single piece, while perhaps an arguably greedy action, is not necessarily one that I would say is morally 'wrong.'

[Teppie]

I just want to know if anywhere during this thread the list or website actually got posted.

[Eidolon]

I just want to know if anywhere during this thread the list or website actually got posted.

No one has actually been able to find it. Multiple people have checked.